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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


Thinking about it, not directly but then there is the post Soviet period with many executions and extreme poverty, the place really is nasty, probably as time moved on, they had more ability to move out.
4/25/2017, 10:53 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
Geezess Profile
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


AUSCHWITZ-BIRKENAU
Main page > Museum > About the available data > The Soviet POWs

The Book of Deceased Soviet POWs, kept in the archives of the Museum, refers to the Soviet soldiers, incarcerated in the POW camp (Russisches Kriegsgefangenen Arbeitslager), located within the territory of the main camp KL Auschwitz. They were arrested after German aggression on the Soviet Union in June 1941, and kept in POW camps, from where they started being deported to Auschwitz from October 1941. Living conditions in the Soviet POWs camp in Auschwitz, and behaviour of camp authorities caused that about 9000 out of 10000 POWs brought in October 1941, died within five months. Their last names may be found in the Book of Deceased Soviet POWs.

http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/about-the-available-data/soviet-pows

SO NOT ALL THAT MANY ... but saying it like makes me feel dirty.And I guess it was just not there.:

How many Soviet POWS were killed by Germany?

It is estimated that at least 3.3 million Soviet POWs died in Nazi custody, out of 5.7 million.
This figure represents a total of 57% of all Soviet POWs and may be contrasted with 8,300 out of 231,000 British and U.S. prisoners, or 3.6%.
About 5% of the Soviet prisoners who died were of Jewish ethnicity.

German mistreatment of Soviet prisoners of war - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war
Search for: How many Soviet POWS were killed by Germany?


Last edited by Geezess, 4/26/2017, 1:26 am
4/26/2017, 1:23 am Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


That is true but does not dismiss what the Soviets did to the Polish. Between 1939-1941 500,000 Poles were imprisoned, 65,000 executed. In 1939 was the Katyn massacre where 22,000 Poles were executed, most of these all being Jews or Ukrainians. After the war Stalin targeted, persecuted, executed the same persons the Nazi's did including Catholics as Stalin had done before the war with the Russian Orthodox and had done with it's pogroms and Jews.
4/26/2017, 3:04 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

who knows?

But the six million figure (of Jews) is pretty much unsustainable.

It is however such an emotive subject that it is hard if not impossible to get information which you can be sure if free of bias, this might be more reliable than many

Image

whilst looking for a more or less reliable source I stumbled across this

Image

which apparently predicts the 6 million figure before any one even knew about the camps!




Yeah, many more people killed than just at the camps.

Einsatzgruppen, "task forces" [2] "deployment groups")[3] were Schutzstaffel (SS) paramilitary death squads of Nazi Germany that were responsible for mass killings, primarily by shooting, during World War II (1939–45).

 Members of the SS, the Wehrmacht, and the Ordnungspolizei (Order Police; Orpo) also shot civilians during the Polish campaign.[16] Approximately 65,000 civilians were killed by the end of 1939. In addition to leaders of Polish society, they killed Jews, prostitutes, Romani people, and the mentally ill. Psychiatric patients in Poland were initially killed by shooting, but by spring 1941 gas vans were widely used.[17][18]

On 17 July Heydrich ordered that the Einsatzgruppen were to kill all Jewish Red Army prisoners of war, plus all Red Army prisoners of war from Georgia and Central Asia, as they too might be Jews.[58]

Within the first few weeks of Operation Barbarossa, 40 pogroms led to the deaths of 10,000 Jews, and by the end of 1941 some 60 pogroms had taken place, claiming as many as 24,000 victim

All four main Einsatzgruppen took part in mass shootings from the early days of the war.[66] Initially the targets were adult Jewish men, but by August the net had been widened to include women, children, and the elderly—the entire Jewish population.

The largest mass shooting perpetrated by the Einsatzgruppen took place on 29 and 30 September 1941 at Babi Yar, a ravine northwest of Kiev, a city in Ukraine
... The murders continued for two days, claiming a total of 33,771 victims

Jeckeln's troops shot more than 100,000 Jews by the end of October.[74]

Of the roughly 83,000 Jews who fell into German hands in Latvia, not more than 900 survived; and of the more than 20,000 Western Jews sent into Latvia, only some 800 lived through the deportation until liberation. This was the highest percentage of eradication in all of Europe

There some doubling up in numbers but my point is made, many people were shot not gassed. 10,000 here and there adds up quickly.

Then there slave labor and its systematic starvation method of execution.

At its peak the forced labourers comprised 20% of the German work force. Counting deaths and turnover, about 15 million men and women were forced labourers at one point or another during the war.

Extermination through labour[edit]

Arbeit Macht Frei ("work will set you free") gate at KZ Sachsenhausen

Forced concentration camp labour at U-boat pens in Bremen, 1944
Main article: Extermination through labour
See also: List of German concentration camps
Millions of Jews were forced labourers in ghettos, before they were shipped off to extermination camps. The Nazis also operated concentration camps, some of which provided free forced labour for industrial and other jobs while others existed purely for the extermination of their inmates. To mislead the victims, at the entrances to a number of camps the lie "work brings freedom" ("arbeit macht frei") was placed, to encourage the false impression that cooperation would earn release. A notable example of labour-concentration camp is the Mittelbau-Dora labour camp complex that serviced the production of the V-2 rocket. Extermination through labour was a Nazi German World War II principle that regulated the aims and purposes of most of their labour and concentration camps.[29][30] The rule demanded that the inmates of German World War II camps be forced to work for the German war industry with only basic tools and minimal food rations until totally exhausted.[

4/26/2017, 11:20 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


this has always confused me. for example
in Italy, a lot of the officers would flat out refused to round up the Jews, still around 6,000 Jews were eventually rounded up when Italy was occupied Less than 700 Jews survived. Can you imagine less than one person in ten.

At least they have records of those they took in Italy. I would imagine that the records were purposely destroyed towards the end of the war once they realized that were losing and tried to hid what they had done. So i don't think they will get an accurate number ever. I imagine that feeds into the Holocaust deniers doubt on the loss of human life.

 

Last edited by snowpixie, 4/27/2017, 11:29 am
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


They can destroy their records but it wasn't ancient times, there are birth records, people had drivers licenses and other identification that they existed. Persons owned businesses, had banking records, owned/rented homes, paid taxes. If out of 6,000 only 700 survived during that period and didn't come home, it wasn't from a flu pandemic. That reason to me is when those who deny the Holocaust because of nothing left by Nazi's it doesn't matter, which in fact they are wrong, millions of documents did not get destroyed.
4/27/2017, 4:14 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


I forgot, it was Mussolini who did not want the Jews destroyed. He wasn't into the perfect solution and Aryan supremacy, he also didn't care for Hitler, what kept them together was that fascism and nazism are similar. The Italian govt. requested they be sent to Italian labour camps but it was refused. The gestapo came in late 1943 and that was when Jews in Italy started getting rounded up and sent to Auschwitz.
4/27/2017, 4:40 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


Geezess your figures are even higher than those claimed by the JEWS!!!

they claim 4 million in 'the camps' (they dont differentiate between labour camps and death camps) and 2 million through "other causes" - (which includes not only shooting but disease and starvation)

Lucy Dawidowicz, in her “The War Against the Jews” used prewar birth and death records to come up with a more precise figure of 5,933,900 (remarkably close to the required 6 million dont you agree?)









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4/27/2017, 4:53 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


So what figures, exactly ?

As I said before a site I did not trust because it was clearly anti-Semitic said the Nazis exterminated up to 22,000,000 but all we ever hear is that they killed 6 million Jews.

They are kind the opposite of Holocaust denial site, and just because they are anti-Semitic does not mean they can't a have point.

So what are YOUR figures ?
That has alway been my point anyway.

4/28/2017, 7:42 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: The Holocaust: Who are the missing millions:


So what are YOUR figures ?


I dont actually have figures, there are no sources (that I have found) that are not obviously partial.

My point (as always in these matters) is that 6 million Jews HAD to die - it was 6 million Jews when the death toll at Auschwitz was 4 million and it was still 6 million when the death toll at Auschwitz was revised down to 1 million and that doesnt make any sense.

Jews had been talking about 6 million of their number dying for decades before the Nazi Holocaust, 6 million dead in Europe(1919)6 million dead in Russia (1921)6 million dead in Eastern Europe (1933) 6 million dead in 1939 and 6 million dead in 1945.

the Jewish death toll of WWII was predicted by American Jews in 1943.

So really, as far as I can tell it doesnt matter how many were actually killed the number will always be 6 million.

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4/28/2017, 8:28 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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