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Kids and guns:


Kids and guns:

Almost 1,300 children die and 5,790 are treated for gunshot wounds annually in America, a new study suggests. Here are the states with the most and least deaths.

[sign in to see URL]

{ What country other than America would put up with this? No wonder many peoples abroad think we love guns more then our own children. I have read there are more guns in the United States then people and its liable to stay that way with the number of children and adults who die every year from guns.}



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6/19/2017, 10:20 am Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


two points,

'fridge doors, children were being killed by getting trapped in refrigerators - very quickly laws were passed making that if not impossible then at least very difficult


Lawn darts a popular toy which caused a few deaths and injuries again very quickly laws were enacted and lawn darts (as originally made) were banned


So why do so many states not have laws which punish those which allow children access to guns?
6/19/2017, 11:00 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Then why not ban automobiles? By your own standard if it cannot be made 'ultimately, absolutely safe' then it must be removed from public access.

Misused or abused even the old standards my grandmother used to support clothes lines were used by children as 'spears' to javelin throw at each other. We beat on each other with make believe swords made of lumber, lots of things can be MADE more dangerous than actually are or left to the imagination or left out in the open for a child to access become a agent of death. Notably Pod laundry soap that children find candy like yet are still sold to this day.
6/19/2017, 12:15 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Then why not ban automobiles



is children driving automobiles and killing people a big problem in America?
6/19/2017, 12:18 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


No but according to Brookings it is a major problem in ethnicity:

[sign in to see URL]
6/19/2017, 12:29 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Then this which has not decreased but INCREASED in a city where firearms LAW is the most stringent:

[url][sign in to see URL]
6/19/2017, 1:15 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

is children driving automobiles and killing people a big problem in America?



reply

quote:

No



so you want to ban something which isnt a problem?

while we at at it how about banning infants from flying planes, navigating ocean going liners and flying to the moon?

your link is off topic
6/19/2017, 2:01 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


You are off topic. In the pre teen to late teen there is an excessive amount of gang related deaths by firearms INCLUDED within the child death stats, so is FULLY appropriate.

Last edited by cooter50, 6/19/2017, 2:16 pm
6/19/2017, 2:15 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


In the pre teen to late teen there is an excessive amount of gang related deaths by firearms INCLUDED within the child death stats,

OK so here are some stats which dont include gang related deaths

AS OF June 16, 2017, THIS YEAR:
50 KIDS KILLED
90 KIDS INJURED
9 ADULTS INJURED
1 ADULT KILLED
ALL BY KIDS

In May 2017, a month with 31 days, at least 37 children pulled a trigger and unintentionally shot themselves or another person.

Of the 37 incidents in May:

3 adults were injured
 24 children were injured
 10 children were killed

The youngest shooter was an 18-month-old in Tennessee who shot himself in the face



Of the 37 incidents in May, over half occurred in just five states:

Indiana: 4
 Louisiana: 4
 Florida: 3
 Tennessee: 3
 Texas: 3


compare with
between 2014 and 2016, Massachusetts, a state with safe storage laws, saw only 1 incident of a child fatally shot with an irresponsibly stored gun.
6/19/2017, 2:26 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Alright, with such a MASSIVE number(37), what of children running into a street hit by auto, poisoned by detergents, chemicals in those same states.

Then there are the children forgotten in autos, 20 deaths in 2013.
[sign in to see URL]

Last edited by cooter50, 6/19/2017, 2:43 pm
6/19/2017, 2:42 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Alright, with such a MASSIVE number(37)



37 in one month most if not all incidents were preventable

How many children were poisoned with detergents in May 2017?


quote:

Then there are the children forgotten in autos



there are already laws in place to deal with that - most states dont have laws in place to deal with dumb asses who leave loaded guns near children

quote:

20 deaths in 2013



20 in a whole year? so far this year 50 children (and 1 adult) have died due to children having access to a loaded gun
6/19/2017, 3:11 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Guns are designed to kill. Automobiles are designed for transportation.

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6/19/2017, 3:18 pm Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Yet cars are used to kill, as are knives, as are ball bats as are any of a thousand object.
6/19/2017, 4:37 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Is that using the old anti gun organization definition of "kid"? They went up to 25 and used to include gang killings.

You can't legislate stupidity out of existence. When my kids were growing up, all of my firearms had cable locks on them so they couldn't be used, and the ammo was locked up. After they got old enough, they had safety training.

6/19/2017, 4:50 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Yet cars are used to kill, as are knives, as are ball bats as are any of a thousand object.



How many kids are accidentally killed by ball bats per year?
6/19/2017, 5:20 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Is that using the old anti gun organization definition of "kid"?



these are soem of the details of those involved in Mays list

13-year-old Andrew White was fatally shot in the chest

 A 11-year-old boy thinking the gun was unloaded unintentionally shot a 10-year-old boy in the shoulder and arm.


A 15-year-old girl riding in the back of a car unintentionally shot the 16-year-old female driver

A 2-year-old boy found a gun in his home and shot and injured himself in the head

A 13-year-old girl was unintentionally shot in the stomach by a 12-year-old boy

 16-year-old cleaning his gun unintentionally fired it, striking a 18-year-old male in the cheek

A 2-year-old found his father’s loaded gun and unintentionally shot himself

A 3-year-old found a loaded handgun in a sofa and unintentionally shot himself in the face


A 13-year-old boy playing with a gun unintentionally shot a 12-year-old friend.

A 10-year-old boy unintentionally shot his 15-year-old brother in the face

A 16-year-old unintentionally shot a 19-year-old friend in the leg.

An 11-year-old boy was babysitting his younger brother at a home when he found a gun under a bed. He fired the weapon, striking his brother in the leg.

A 2-year-old was handling a loaded, unsecured gun and shot himself in the arm


A man was bathing his children He took the 1-year-old out and placed him on a bed and left the room, The child found a loaded gun on the bed and fired it, grazing his face.


A 6-year-old suffered a gunshot wound to the abdomen. Authorities believe that the injury was self-inflicted and unintentional

A 6-year-old child brought a loaded gun to school and dropped it. Another child picked up and fired it, striking a nearby 7-year-old.

Two 9-year-olds were playing with a loaded 9mm gun when it discharged, striking one of the boys in the neck.

Two 15-year-olds were handling a gun, when one of the teens accidentally shot the other in the stomach.

 A 3-year-old child was staying with a man and his wife when he found a loaded, unsecured gun in a bedroom and fired it, striking himself in the foot.

A 3-year-old boy died Friday after shooting himself with a gun he found in his family’s SUV outside their home.


A 4-year-old boy, just days away from turning five, accidentally shot and killed himself after finding a gun in his home

A 9-year-old had gotten off the bus from school shortly before gaining access to a gun and fatally shooting himself with it.


A 15-year-old boy picked up a 9 mm pistol, accidentally causing it to fire. The teen was struck in the abdomen.

Several teens were playing with a gun in a barn when it discharged, shooting a 16-year-old in the head

A 12-year-old boy was playing with a handgun, unloaded the magazine but didn’t clear the bullet in the chamber and shot himself in the head.

A 2-year-old boy was unintentionally shot in the hand.

An 8 year old boy found one of his parents loaded AK-47 in the trunk of a car and unintentionally shot himself in the leg.

A 10-year-old boy was playing with his parent’s 9mm Glock handgun as he talked to a friend on his computer when he discharged the gun and shot himself in the arm.


Three friends were playing with a handgun when it unintentionally fired, killing a 12 year old. Three teen friend were playing with a handgun when it unintentionally fired, killing a 12 year old. The 13-year-old was charged with negligent homicide and a 12-year-old was charged with possession of a firearm.

Two 15-year-old teens were playing with a handgun when it discharged, shooting one in the head



there you go no 25 year olds no 20 year olds no 18 year olds!

there were lots of kids too young to even go to school - some of which will never go to school
6/19/2017, 5:23 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Anti gun organizations will pick and choose what they want us to see and believe. But like I said, you can't legislate away stupidity. IMO parents who leave a loaded firearm where children COULD access and they are injured as a result should be prosecuted.

I hunted with my father and grandfather for years before I was allowed to use a firearm. They taught me well, and I was picky about who I would hunt with.
6/19/2017, 5:37 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Anti gun organizations will pick and choose what they want us to see and believe



unlike the progun lobby which is at all times fair and even handed in its approach to gun ownership?



quote:

I said, you can't legislate away stupidity



apparently you can!

between 2014 and 2016, Massachusetts, a state with safe storage laws, saw only 1 incident of a child fatally shot with an irresponsibly stored gun.

 IMO parents who leave a loaded firearm where children COULD access and they are injured as a result should be prosecuted.


But they arent (in all states) even where there is a law in place it is rarely invoked
only in 14 out of 152 deaths of children under age 12 over the last three years was the safe storage of guns laws invoked.
 Five of those came in Texas, where the offense is a misdemeanor, although grand juries later declined to issue indictments in two of them.


In Tennessee the 11 year old that shot dead an 8 yearold girl will remain in jail until he is an adult - his father who left the loaded gun at his ass recieved no penalty


From 2012 through 2016, efforts to create laws in 11 states that don’t have them — and to strengthen laws in 20 others that do — have failed. Not one became law.


Only 27 states (and the District of Columbia) have adopted some form of a child access prevention law, although their provisions vary widely. Most carry only misdemeanor penalties, and some are written very narrowly so that they may not apply even when children die.
6/19/2017, 5:52 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Number of swimming pool deaths of children in 2000: 3,482

Number of firearm deaths of children in 2000: 776

][sign in to see URL]



6/20/2017, 5:27 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


Anyone looking at the annual statistic can easily see that the periods of high firearm deaths was when there was more legislation, like Prohibition and the War on Drugs.
Otherwise the US had the same murder rate as England.
6/20/2017, 5:30 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Noserose wrote:

Guns are designed to kill. Automobiles are designed for transportation.




Actually killers don't need a firearm, and the main purpose of a firearm is to defend when you are not a strong killer type.

Automobiles are not designed for transportation since mass transit is over ten times safer and more efficient. Automobiles are designed to be fun and give a feeling or freedom and power.
6/20/2017, 5:33 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Number of swimming pool deaths of children in 2000: 3,482

Number of firearm deaths of children in 2000: 776




well thats alright then perhaps we should just look at the 776 gun deaths as thining the gene pool (obviously if their parents were dumb with a gun it is probable that the children might have been similarly blighted)


776 killed by guns - I wonder how many more were injured with life changing injuries?


quote:

Anyone looking at the annual statistic can easily see that the periods of high firearm deaths was when there was more legislation, like Prohibition and the War on Drugs




Nonsense

quote:

Otherwise the US had the same murder rate as England.



utter nonsense


quote:

Actually killers don't need a firearm



no they dont - just like "actual carpenters" dont need a hammer - they could hammer in nail with a rock - but in both cases the correct tool makes things so much .

three islamic terrorists in London without guns = 8 dead

three islamic terrorists in Paris with guns = 90 dead



quote:

Automobiles are not designed for transportation since mass transit is over ten times safer and more efficient.



define 'efficient' what metric are you using?


quote:

Automobiles are designed to be fun and give a feeling or freedom and power



the basic design is transport the rest is frippery Guns are designed to kill (in the vast majority of cases) but that doesnt stop the makers from fancying them up and making them macho
6/20/2017, 11:28 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


I guess at my age I shouldn't be bathing anymore, very, very [sign in to see URL] don't know if persons who compare guns with swimming pools, cars, bats, etc. realize it's a non valid argument, need a new one, unless you prefer to stick to the 2nd amendment which makes far more sense.
6/20/2017, 3:31 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

Number of swimming pool deaths of children in 2000: 3,482

Number of firearm deaths of children in 2000: 776




well thats alright then perhaps we should just look at the 776 gun deaths as thining the gene pool (obviously if their parents were dumb with a gun it is probable that the children might have been similarly blighted)


776 killed by guns - I wonder how many more were injured with life changing injuries?


quote:

Anyone looking at the annual statistic can easily see that the periods of high firearm deaths was when there was more legislation, like Prohibition and the War on Drugs




Nonsense

quote:

Otherwise the US had the same murder rate as England.



utter nonsense


quote:

Actually killers don't need a firearm



no they dont - just like "actual carpenters" dont need a hammer - they could hammer in nail with a rock - but in both cases the correct tool makes things so much .

three islamic terrorists in London without guns = 8 dead

three islamic terrorists in Paris with guns = 90 dead



quote:

Automobiles are not designed for transportation since mass transit is over ten times safer and more efficient.



define 'efficient' what metric are you using?


quote:

Automobiles are designed to be fun and give a feeling or freedom and power



the basic design is transport the rest is frippery Guns are designed to kill (in the vast majority of cases) but that doesnt stop the makers from fancying them up and making them macho




Nonsense.

The point is that with a population of 330 million, people don't understand statistics, and don't realize that 776 is essentially ZERO.

In 1900, before prohibition, the war on drugs, etc., the US had the exact same murder rate as England, about 1/100k, even though the rate of firearm ownership was almost twice as high then, compared to now.

History shows thousands of years of the big and strong murdering and terrorizing average people, and it is only the invention of the firearm that changed that.
All of what we consider "civilization" is due to firearms equalizing average people to being able to finally resist the big and strong criminals.
If someone wants to commit mass murder, the stupidest tool would be a firearm, when obviously bombs, arson, or the police are far more efficient at it, and have much less risk.

What makes mass transit much more efficient is that it costs far less, does not require insurance, needs no licensing, has less then 10% the risk, has no maintenance, uses less than half the fuel, takes no skill or effort, allows better time utilization, pollutes far less, etc.

Nothing about cars are designed for transport.
If they were, they would be little, slow, fuel efficient boxes. Appearance, style, power, identity, handling, etc., are the main factors the way cars are designed for.
6/20/2017, 5:05 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


776 kids are next to zero? I don't think so.
6/20/2017, 5:29 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

776 kids are next to zero? I don't think so.



You are wrong.

{...
Believe it or not, balloons cause more childhood deaths than any other toy.
That’s right. Balloons!

This shocking fact was established by a study conducted by Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh in conjunction with DuPont Institute, and Inchcape Testing Services Risk Analysis and Management. They looked at the shape, consistency, and size of objects that caused choking deaths in 449 children. Findings from this study include: objects that pass the Small Parts Test Fixture (the cylinder with a diameter of [sign in to see URL] cm that is used to gauge the safety of small toys) can cause choking. The biggest culprits in this category are spherical objects such as balls and marbles or objects that have spherical parts such as dolls with spherical heads. Far more dangerous, however, are objects that have the ability to conform to the shape of a child’s airway, such as balloons and disposable diaper stuffing. Of additional concern is the fact that the number of deaths caused by children inhaling a portion of a balloon are still very high in the 3 – 6 year-old range, which we consider out of danger from choking.
...}

][sign in to see URL]
6/20/2017, 5:39 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

people don't understand statistics, and don't realize that 776 is essentially ZERO.



unless you are the mother, father sister brother of one of those killed
AND as I pointed out 776 is not the end of it for every one killed there will be many more that were injured some with injuries which will affct them for their entire lives.

Uk has about 60 million and the number of children killed annually in firearms accidents isnt 'essentially ZERO' its ZERO

I think I wrote this before but here it goes again, in Northern Ireland population ~2 million where gun ownership runs at about 22 per 100 people accidental shootings are almost unknown!


quote:

In 1900, before prohibition, the war on drugs, etc., the US had the exact same murder rate as England, about 1/100k, even though the rate of firearm ownership was almost twice as high then, compared to now



Discussed this before and it looks like a counting errors.

Unless you can explain why the murder rate went up by 50% 1905 (1.3 to 2.1) and then increased again 1n 1906 (2.1 to 3.9) and again in 1907 (3.9 to 4.9).

also you can have absolutely no idea as to how many people owned guns then or now.


quote:

If someone wants to commit mass murder, the stupidest tool would be a firearm



So many (most) mass murderers are stupid - no argument here!

you cannot deny that the gun is the weapon of choice for the American murderer not the bomb, not the knife not the automobile, the gun


quote:

What makes mass transit much more efficient is that it costs far less, does not require insurance, needs no licensing, has less then 10% the risk, has no maintenance, uses less than half the fuel, takes no skill or effort, allows better time utilization, pollutes far less, etc.



all of which is fine and dandy IF you live on a route AND that route takes you to where you want to go.

I once worked in a neighboring town 7 miles away - I could drive it in a little over 10 minutes using mass transport would have taken well in excess of 1 hour would have involved walking 1/2mile, waiting (in the rain/ cold) for the bus, travelling for 15 minutes (in the wrong direction) getting off the bus waiting again in the rain and cold for another bus sitting for 15 minutes on it and then walking another 3/4 of a mile.

not very efficient!

If they were, they would be little, slow, fuel efficient boxes. Appearance, style, power, identity, handling, etc., are the main factors the way cars are designed

I used to drive a 2CV (600cc air cooled 27bhp on a good day no heater worth the name)

undoubtedly many cars perform well in excess of what is required but cant the same be said for many guns?
6/20/2017, 5:42 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

776 kids are next to zero? I don't think so.



You are wrong.

{...
Believe it or not, balloons cause more childhood deaths than any other toy.
That’s right. Balloons!

This shocking fact was established by a study conducted by Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh in conjunction with DuPont Institute, and Inchcape Testing Services Risk Analysis and Management. They looked at the shape, consistency, and size of objects that caused choking deaths in 449 children. Findings from this study include: objects that pass the Small Parts Test Fixture (the cylinder with a diameter of [sign in to see URL] cm that is used to gauge the safety of small toys) can cause choking. The biggest culprits in this category are spherical objects such as balls and marbles or objects that have spherical parts such as dolls with spherical heads. Far more dangerous, however, are objects that have the ability to conform to the shape of a child’s airway, such as balloons and disposable diaper stuffing. Of additional concern is the fact that the number of deaths caused by children inhaling a portion of a balloon are still very high in the 3 – 6 year-old range, which we consider out of danger from choking.
...}

][sign in to see URL]



I am not wrong, one death is always one to many for me and in whatever the circumstance.
6/20/2017, 5:47 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

people don't understand statistics, and don't realize that 776 is essentially ZERO.



unless you are the mother, father sister brother of one of those killed
AND as I pointed out 776 is not the end of it for every one killed there will be many more that were injured some with injuries which will affct them for their entire lives.

Uk has about 60 million and the number of children killed annually in firearms accidents isnt 'essentially ZERO' its ZERO

I think I wrote this before but here it goes again, in Northern Ireland population ~2 million where gun ownership runs at about 22 per 100 people accidental shootings are almost unknown!


quote:

In 1900, before prohibition, the war on drugs, etc., the US had the exact same murder rate as England, about 1/100k, even though the rate of firearm ownership was almost twice as high then, compared to now



Discussed this before and it looks like a counting errors.

Unless you can explain why the murder rate went up by 50% 1905 (1.3 to 2.1) and then increased again 1n 1906 (2.1 to 3.9) and again in 1907 (3.9 to 4.9).

also you can have absolutely no idea as to how many people owned guns then or now.


quote:

If someone wants to commit mass murder, the stupidest tool would be a firearm



So many (most) mass murderers are stupid - no argument here!

you cannot deny that the gun is the weapon of choice for the American murderer not the bomb, not the knife not the automobile, the gun


quote:

What makes mass transit much more efficient is that it costs far less, does not require insurance, needs no licensing, has less then 10% the risk, has no maintenance, uses less than half the fuel, takes no skill or effort, allows better time utilization, pollutes far less, etc.



all of which is fine and dandy IF you live on a route AND that route takes you to where you want to go.

I once worked in a neighboring town 7 miles away - I could drive it in a little over 10 minutes using mass transport would have taken well in excess of 1 hour would have involved walking 1/2mile, waiting (in the rain/ cold) for the bus, travelling for 15 minutes (in the wrong direction) getting off the bus waiting again in the rain and cold for another bus sitting for 15 minutes on it and then walking another 3/4 of a mile.

not very efficient!

If they were, they would be little, slow, fuel efficient boxes. Appearance, style, power, identity, handling, etc., are the main factors the way cars are designed

I used to drive a 2CV (600cc air cooled 27bhp on a good day no heater worth the name)

undoubtedly many cars perform well in excess of what is required but cant the same be said for many guns?




Wrong.
The accidental shooting rate in UK is .23/100k. Since the UK population is 65 million, the accidental shootings are 1500/year.

No, the rate did not go up 1905, 1906, 1907, etc.
The rate had a normal fluctuation until Prohibition caused large amounts of cash to be no longer protected by banks or police.

Look at the war on drugs.
We have more guns now than during the height of the war on drugs, but murder rates now are lower.
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Obviously guns reduce murder rates.

Mass transit is not for every situation, but clearly would be better for 99%.
Even in your village situation, a shuttle should have been available if the government was doing their job right.
6/20/2017, 6:07 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Kids and guns:


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

I guess at my age I shouldn't be bathing anymore, very, very [sign in to see URL] don't know if persons who compare guns with swimming pools, cars, bats, etc. realize it's a non valid argument, need a new one, unless you prefer to stick to the 2nd amendment which makes far more sense.



Obviously the point is you don't understand numbers.

The 2nd amendment is not an argument, but just a legal fact.

The argument is that when you reduce/eliminate private firearms, then murder and crime can go up drastically.
It is a return to feudal times.
6/20/2017, 6:10 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 


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