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What the hell happened to my country?


When I read various articles where comments are allowed, they tend to be full of accusations and insults from both the left and right.

I cannot help but feel we have never been more divided as a nation. Even in our Civil War days, it was mostly just a single issue that divided the nation. These days it seems we cannot agree on anything. It's as if we simply get into shouting matches, never truly explaining and listening to various viewpoints.

There are countless memes spread across the internet with no basis in fact, but people believe and share them because they support their viewpoints.

It seems to me the truth gets lost in all this noise. And when the truth is lost, we cannot possibly know the best way forward.

As someone that leans left, it would be easy for me to put all the blame on the right. While it's possible that's the case, things are rarely that simple. And while I believe Republicans as a party are totally lost, and have to recognize the Democrats share responsibility.

I'll end this with a few questions;

-As a nation, are we truly more divided than in past?
-Does the internet encourage this division or does it simply allow people to say what they truly think?
-Can we return to actually debating issues?
-Where are we headed if this continues?

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/15/2017, 5:02 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


I wasn't around in those day but from what I read the Vietnam war years really divided the country.

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7/15/2017, 7:08 pm Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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The optics were more realistic then when conservative "hardhats", big burly men, waving flags, were filmed beating up the "flower children" declared nonviolent hippies.

Where the violence really comes from was clear and harder to cover up.
7/15/2017, 8:39 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

Noserose wrote:

I wasn't around in those day but from what I read the Vietnam war years really divided the country.



The US had relatively recovered from those times then the Imagineering of Social Programs and imaginative program financing of the Democrats came to happen. Jobs disappeared, industries that were pivoting on negligible margins gave in to the excess costs and ended operations. The imagineered, imaginative funding monetary funds dried up and the Democrats blamed the workers for short changing them much the same as with ACA, the social lifers could not get what had been promised and "Saw the Light" of the lies thrown down their streets by those uber-liberal bullshit artists. I seriously doubt the nation will recover from this.
7/15/2017, 11:33 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


The division is largely a moral one and not based on economics. Why do so many relatively poor people support Republicans who do little for them economically? Claims of shared morality. Republicans claim to be pro-life. And anti-gun control.

The media has also been intensifying the division for years, driving both sides apart much more than bringing Americans together. The division is good for the media. It gives them something to do stories about, especially when it escalates into violent incidents of some kind.

And it is true that liberals have shared in creating the problem by doing things like using bad and ineffective arguments for keeping abortion legal. And hollering for a feeding tube to be removed from a woman in Florida.

The animosity and political division is not surprising since conservatives view liberals as people who support the killing of babies while liberals view conservatives as nuts who want to tell women what to do with their bodies.

I believe that resolving just one issue, the abortion issue, would make much of the political division disappear. The problem is that doing so requires a level of careful thought and consideration both of the issue and the other side that neither side seems to be able to manage.



7/16/2017, 12:31 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


There have been times of great division within the country. This period is magnified because the voices once heard only on the fringes by a small number of people now have a forum - the internet -to publish their dreck and have it seen and read by a much wider audience. Views once whispered among people or shouted by freaks on street corners are now written and available without visual queues that marginalize what is being offered. Many people have a hard time evaluating the validity of what's written.
7/16/2017, 3:12 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


Philer so sorry to hear you still live in that dream world that "Can't everyone just get along"

The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides where on one hand they want to allow ZERO abortions due to religious connotation while the other believes until actually viable OUTSIDE the mother's body the fetus is such and not considered a singular human that as such she may discharge the growing mechanism as any tumor or irritant growth. To find a 'Middle Ground' has been attempted to no end with no end in sight and no premise even close enough suiting both sides to derive an end.

Then you get into social programs WELL BEYOND SSI or Medicare which were and still are paid ahead by payroll taxes, those programs that absorb moneys faster than can be made up many even more than the politicos can get printed scrip to cover.

The only and literally ONLY functional method to derive a socialized world is to end money of any and all forms. You need some product or service it becomes bartered for another owned component or service function available, then you run into that foreboding wall of lethargy within those that see another get more for their barter so they barter less or fail to barter adequately and the fights ensue. This as to human living/life is a no brainer cannot be won series of battles.

Hell even chimps and gorilla seemingly mild mannered develop boundary limitations where fights to the death occur, where the offspring of defeated leaders are killed and EATEN, it is a component part of life and living all across the animal world, we are also animals seemingly attempting to change the rules.
7/16/2017, 3:30 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


Are you thinking about killing and eating liberals, footer?
7/16/2017, 3:35 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

There have been times of great division within the country. This period is magnified because the voices once heard only on the fringes by a small number of people now have a forum - the internet -to publish their dreck and have it seen and read by a much wider audience. Views once whispered among people or shouted by freaks on street corners are now written and available without visual queues that marginalize what is being offered. Many people have a hard time evaluating the validity of what's written.



This is exactly what I referred to above, Gop. It would seem the internet has played a major role in fueling this division.

But the internet isn't going away, so where does that leave us?

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/16/2017, 3:48 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides where on one hand they want to allow ZERO abortions due to religious connotation while the other believes until actually viable OUTSIDE the mother's body the fetus is such and not considered a singular human that as such she may discharge the growing mechanism as any tumor or irritant growth. To find a 'Middle Ground' has been attempted to no end with no end in sight and no premise even close enough suiting both sides to derive an end.


I see the above as part of the problem with our thinking.

Not everyone has exactly the same views on abortion. Some would ban abortions in all cases, some would allow it in cases of rape or incest.

This is another issue where the internet promotes lies and confusion.

Obama presented a perfectly reasonable suggestion for dealing with this issue; Work to reduce unwanted pregnancies. The response was to label him a baby killer.

Only when people are unreasonable, which is usually based on misinformation, are we unable to reach a compromise.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/16/2017, 4:01 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


I think that, like all things, the internet will evolve and people will eventually have a more skeptical view of things they read. That element won't go away completely, but I think people can educate themselves (helped by others) about discerning what can and can't be trusted. Sites monitoring and reporting on the veracity of claims can help and we see those now. Another thing that would help would be a reduction in reliance on the 24-hour "news" channels which have largely devolved into ideologically inspired sensationalism. And politicians need to actually lead, rather than just try to exploit inflamed passions.

There's a lot that needs to happen, but it will have to be a collective (I hope you sense the irony of me using that word) effort on the part of people everywhere to modify behavior.
7/16/2017, 4:03 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

Are you thinking about killing and eating liberals, footer?



I am a bit more civilized than that but in a desperate society I could see it eventually occurring on both sides!! They do tend to eat their own when challenged!
7/16/2017, 4:13 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


What has happened is that the selfish lack of compassion has intensified.
7/16/2017, 7:25 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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quote:

gopqed wrote:

I think that, like all things, the internet will evolve and people will eventually have a more skeptical view of things they read. That element won't go away completely, but I think people can educate themselves (helped by others) about discerning what can and can't be trusted. Sites monitoring and reporting on the veracity of claims can help and we see those now. Another thing that would help would be a reduction in reliance on the 24-hour "news" channels which have largely devolved into ideologically inspired sensationalism. And politicians need to actually lead, rather than just try to exploit inflamed passions.

There's a lot that needs to happen, but it will have to be a collective (I hope you sense the irony of me using that word) effort on the part of people everywhere to modify behavior.



I agree. It's too easy for people to accept things as fact simply because it fits their world view.

It will help if we get back to electing the types of presidents that we did before Trump, presidents that showed respect for others and at least acted as though they represented the entire nation, even if it seemed their policies didn't.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/16/2017, 8:11 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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One of the contributing factors in the election of Trump is the manner of nominating Presidential candidates through a nearly total reliance on primaries. It has turned the nominating process into a popularity contest which prizes celebrity, rather than political leadership and statesmanship. Trump's election is simply the extreme manifestation of that effect, but we've seen a decline in the victors' those political skills over the last 25 years. Without a change in the nominating process, we're likely to see additional candidates without previous political experience.
7/16/2017, 8:30 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

Philer so sorry to hear you still live in that dream world that "Can't everyone just get along"

The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides where on one hand they want to allow ZERO abortions due to religious connotation while the other believes until actually viable OUTSIDE the mother's body the fetus is such and not considered a singular human that as such she may discharge the growing mechanism as any tumor or irritant growth. To find a 'Middle Ground' has been attempted to no end with no end in sight and no premise even close enough suiting both sides to derive an [sign in to see URL]



It's a matter of one of the main things needing to be done to resolve the sharp political division in this country. Other countries don't experience political turmoil and animosity over the abortion issue like we do.

And I do believe the issue can be resolved. The first thing to make that happen could be liberals agreeing with conservatives that unborn babies have a right to life. Some of them already have although it's a rare phenomenon.

How about all the liberals here agreeing with that reasonable moral stipulation? I can assure them it's not painful to do so.
7/16/2017, 9:12 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


Unlike France maybe or Germany with their own political issues during elections? Really Philer?
7/16/2017, 11:06 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Philer so sorry to hear you still live in that dream world that "Can't everyone just get along"

The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides where on one hand they want to allow ZERO abortions due to religious connotation while the other believes until actually viable OUTSIDE the mother's body the fetus is such and not considered a singular human that as such she may discharge the growing mechanism as any tumor or irritant growth. To find a 'Middle Ground' has been attempted to no end with no end in sight and no premise even close enough suiting both sides to derive an [sign in to see URL]



It's a matter of one of the main things needing to be done to resolve the sharp political division in this country. Other countries don't experience political turmoil and animosity over the abortion issue like we do.

And I do believe the issue can be resolved. The first thing to make that happen could be liberals agreeing with conservatives that unborn babies have a right to life. Some of them already have although it's a rare phenomenon.

How about all the liberals here agreeing with that reasonable moral stipulation? I can assure them it's not painful to do so.



Many countries suffer far more than we do, billions of women where abortion is totally illegal. Other countries that allow abortion do experience political turmoil over it, we are just not there to experience it and it isn't a news headliner in this country. I will use France as an example, there is an anti abortion organization in France as most countries have even when legal. France also restricts it's abortions to 12 wks. with very few approvals after that. Spain follows about the same rules. Or there is Poland where abortion is illegal unless rape, life of the mother or 'damaged' fetus. Christians may not be attending church at a very high rate but I found in many of the Catholic Euro countries their faith and the rules are still a pretty strong influence especially in rural areas.
7/17/2017, 1:25 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


I guess it has to be hyped headlines to get some persons attention.
7/17/2017, 11:24 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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It seems the costal states and the so-called "fly over states" not only have little in common but almost seems like they are different countries.

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7/17/2017, 12:10 pm Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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quote:

Philer wrote:
It's a matter of one of the main things needing to be done to resolve the sharp political division in this country. Other countries don't experience political turmoil and animosity over the abortion issue like we do.

And I do believe the issue can be resolved. The first thing to make that happen could be liberals agreeing with conservatives that unborn babies have a right to life. Some of them already have although it's a rare phenomenon.

How about all the liberals here agreeing with that reasonable moral stipulation? I can assure them it's not painful to do so.



How about conservatives agree that women do not generally opt for an abortion with no more thought than when flipping a light switch?

How about conservatives stop defunding places like Planned Parenthood, where funds cannot be used for abortions anyway?

How about conservatives admit one of the best ways to stop unwanted pregnancies is by contraception?

You see it works both ways.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/17/2017, 3:02 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

Noserose wrote:

It seems the costal states and the so-called "fly over states" not only have little in common but almost seems like they are different countries.




Rose I have to disagree with that assessment - at least in part. Actually I don't believe the divide is simply a two way split. Rather I view our national divide as a fractional division that results in multiple little national subdivisions. As an example it is totally mistaken to lump the entirety of "fly over" country into a single monolithic entity. As an example, politically and culturally, the upper Midwest (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and to a lesser degree the Dakotas) has far more in common with northern New England (Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont) than it does with either the south or the intermountain west in fly over.

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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


"The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides" especially when one side thinks that defunding Family Planning is part of the debate, so actually increases the number of (illegal) abortion and based on the policies that they follow (health-care for one example) their Christian concern collectively ends once a child is born.

But sure "The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides" because one side is extremist idiots who should worry more about their own souls than everyone else's.

Last edited by Geezess, 7/17/2017, 4:02 pm
7/17/2017, 3:58 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Unlike France maybe or Germany with their own political issues during elections? Really Philer?



Do they have as much controversy and outright conflict over the abortion issue as we do? I doubt it. I've never heard of abortion clinics being blown up in France or Germany. Or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.
7/17/2017, 8:54 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Philer so sorry to hear you still live in that dream world that "Can't everyone just get along"

The abortion issue will never be solved to suit both sides where on one hand they want to allow ZERO abortions due to religious connotation while the other believes until actually viable OUTSIDE the mother's body the fetus is such and not considered a singular human that as such she may discharge the growing mechanism as any tumor or irritant growth. To find a 'Middle Ground' has been attempted to no end with no end in sight and no premise even close enough suiting both sides to derive an [sign in to see URL]



It's a matter of one of the main things needing to be done to resolve the sharp political division in this country. Other countries don't experience political turmoil and animosity over the abortion issue like we do.

And I do believe the issue can be resolved. The first thing to make that happen could be liberals agreeing with conservatives that unborn babies have a right to life. Some of them already have although it's a rare phenomenon.

How about all the liberals here agreeing with that reasonable moral stipulation? I can assure them it's not painful to do so.



Many countries suffer far more than we do, billions of women where abortion is totally illegal. Other countries that allow abortion do experience political turmoil over it, we are just not there to experience it and it isn't a news headliner in this country. I will use France as an example, there is an anti abortion organization in France as most countries have even when legal. France also restricts it's abortions to 12 wks. with very few approvals after that. Spain follows about the same rules. Or there is Poland where abortion is illegal unless rape, life of the mother or 'damaged' fetus. Christians may not be attending church at a very high rate but I found in many of the Catholic Euro countries their faith and the rules are still a pretty strong influence especially in rural areas.



I suspect our news media would let us know if any abortion clinics in Europe were blown up. Has it ever happened? It's happened here. Also we've had more than one abortion doctor assassinated as well as other people murdered by abortion opponents.

And I'm not surprised to learn that there is some controversy in countries dominated by or heavily influenced by the Catholic Church. It is staunchly anti-choice.

At the same time the list of countries where the abortion issue is pretty much a settled issue is a long one and includes most of the population of the world. That list includes Canada, Great Britain, Sweden, Greece, Russia, South Africa, China, India and Japan. Abortion is also available with probably less controversy than here in other countries including Israel, Tunisia, and Turkey.

I believe our media has intensified the abortion controversy and it has certainly done very little to reduce the political conflict, violence and nonsense it has generated. The issue should have been resolved a long time ago just as it was resolved in Great Britain and Canada.

This issue continues to divide our nation probably like no other single issue does.
7/17/2017, 9:12 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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quote:

John1959 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:
It's a matter of one of the main things needing to be done to resolve the sharp political division in this country. Other countries don't experience political turmoil and animosity over the abortion issue like we do.

And I do believe the issue can be resolved. The first thing to make that happen could be liberals agreeing with conservatives that unborn babies have a right to life. Some of them already have although it's a rare phenomenon.

How about all the liberals here agreeing with that reasonable moral stipulation? I can assure them it's not painful to do so.



How about conservatives agree that women do not generally opt for an abortion with no more thought than when flipping a light switch?

How about conservatives stop defunding places like Planned Parenthood, where funds cannot be used for abortions anyway?

How about conservatives admit one of the best ways to stop unwanted pregnancies is by contraception?

You see it works both ways.



I agree. It definitely works both ways. Conservatives should agree with all of those points you mentioned just as liberals should agree that unborn babies have a right to life.

7/17/2017, 9:17 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Would be fine Jhn if you can convince those that need take the contraceptives or use the rubbers or use the vagina condoms or anything else to ACTUALLY use them and correctly.

Girl I dated in HS, been on the pill to control menstruation cycles for three years and VOILA!!turned up pregnant, luckily for me by another she was also seeing. He was not so lucky both being Catholic ended up married then divorce then child custody battle and eventual hateful ending.

The ONLY WAY to not make unwanted or unnecessary pregnancies is NOT TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS but good luck with that in our hormone ruled children.

Condoms are available or EITHER sex, they stop using them when uncomfortable or lack of sensation or just too much in a hurry. As for Panned Parenthood actually making a difference, good luck with that too as any family NOT wanting a pregnancy to deal with won't slow down passing that office by.

I seriously have doubts as to quantification and qualification of any stats by these Government fed people, they have to justify their purpose in life and work, the numbers can come from the roll of dice for all any of us know for validity.
7/17/2017, 10:39 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Would be fine Jhn if you can convince those that need take the contraceptives or use the rubbers or use the vagina condoms or anything else to ACTUALLY use them and correctly.

Girl I dated in HS, been on the pill to control menstruation cycles for three years and VOILA!!turned up pregnant, luckily for me by another she was also seeing. He was not so lucky both being Catholic ended up married then divorce then child custody battle and eventual hateful ending.

The ONLY WAY to not make unwanted or unnecessary pregnancies is NOT TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS but good luck with that in our hormone ruled children.

Condoms are available or EITHER sex, they stop using them when uncomfortable or lack of sensation or just too much in a hurry. As for Panned Parenthood actually making a difference, good luck with that too as any family NOT wanting a pregnancy to deal with won't slow down passing that office by.

I seriously have doubts as to quantification and qualification of any stats by these Government fed people, they have to justify their purpose in life and work, the numbers can come from the roll of dice for all any of us know for validity.



Yes, abstinence is the best birth control, but then there are cases of rape that lead to pregnancy and many that are anti-abortion oppose it in those cases as well.

Telling young people "just don't do it" isn't going to work. That's why we need places like Planned Parenthood.


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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
7/18/2017, 5:15 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


If " Yes, abstinence is the best birth control" and other forms also work to reduce the evil of abortions in America why is this, and not funding Planned Parenthood is the conservative policy ?

Trump Administration Cuts Funding From Teen Pregnancy Prevention ...
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4 days ago - More than 80 programs lost two full years' worth of money. ... The Trump administration has reportedly cut $213.6 million in teen pregnancy ... Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy, teen pregnancy rates in the ...

Trump administration cuts teen pregnancy prevention program funding ...
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3 days ago - The Trump administration has quietly cut more than $213 million from teen ... The teen pregnancy rate, now at historic lows, has declined ...

BTW as respectful compromise I've included the story from both separate American mediums.

Do conservatives
a) know what they really want?
b) know how to accomplish anything, ever ?

Their only excuse is being extremists forsaking better/good in favor of sure to fail ideological more big government perfection.

Is there a name for that kind of government ?


7/18/2017, 5:26 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: What the hell happened to my country?


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

quote:

gopqed wrote:

Are you thinking about killing and eating liberals, footer?



I am a bit more civilized than that but in a desperate society I could see it eventually occurring on both sides!! They do tend to eat their own when challenged!



Oh, okay, sure you are,a bit, anyway.
But how can we tell that is true when you repeatedly seem to support this:

The Philosophy Of The 'Useless Eaters' - Rense
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Sure you're just doing as you are told by the The Party, but that began, and the law on doing that was settled at Nuremberg, too.
7/18/2017, 5:34 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 


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