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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


Did not 'state' that either.

Their way of life was bad, they saw it being force ended while they were in the process of change anyway. Slaves were a expense and a growing investment expense where mechanization was a better alternative, they did understand that. The Cotton Gin was that first step where formerly the slaves deseeded each cotton bole by hand. Horse drawn cotton picking equipment was already under design, faster, cleaner, more effective and required no food, clothing, housing other than horses they already had.

The established method of the day for southern crops delivery was shipping thru a designated exporter set with tariff for each ton of material to those markets overseas or to the north. Those regulations were becoming untenable basically destroying any income from that product and setting a massive profit north to others IE shippers, middle men agents/agencies for exports, tariffs for the Fed. The regulations did not stop there, there added decrees over the course of decades up to 1859, the Dred Scott decision was one that did benefit as was the Missouri Compromise upon the new western territories but did not aid much as to the necessity to maintain slaves.
8/22/2017, 2:49 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


So, since slavery was becoming uneconomical for slave-holders, and holding slaves would eventually fade away, was there any need for the 13th Amendment to the Constitution?
8/22/2017, 3:13 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


I must confess that I am terribly conflicted on this issue. On one hand I am definately opposed to sanitizing history, or sadly the all too often attempts to totally eliminate any vestige of history. Indeed I believe our responsibility is two fold. To preserve history. And to do so in a totally accurate and objective manner. And that accurate view of history includes all of the warts and blemishes. However, I also do not want to distort history to meet some self serving view of history that is objectionable to a large segment of society, not to mention presenting a distorted view of history. Basically everything has a time and place. And the sad fact is that for the past century and one half many of those statues and memorials have been put of place. And the time has long passed when those memorials and statues need to have been moved to museums and battlefield memorial parks (Gettysburg, Shiloah, etc). And doing so enmasse at this belated date becomes an open, yet unavoidable invitation for conflict of a terribly divided nation. Divided in countless ways. We need to move forward. But that movement probably needs to be in a bit more of an orderly fashion.

Last edited by GoHawk, 8/22/2017, 3:48 pm


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Long live the Free Territory of Trieste (1947 - 1954)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory_of_Trieste
8/22/2017, 3:41 pm Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


 It occurred to me that it is not possible to both worship at the altar of the Confederacy and fight for the liberation of people like me. That fact may seem obvious now, but for my white classmates who wore Confederate flag shirts to class, even as they assured me that “I’m not racist,” the idea that one could celebrate the heritage without the hate held currency. And I believe that even today, many of those old friends tell themselves just that.

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The author has a point.

You cannot built monument and statues and wave their flag and praise people while condemning the cause for which they fought.

Either you see slavery and white supremacy for the abomination it was or you don't.

You cannot both claim that it was a good thing that slavery ended and admire the people that worked so hard to see it continue without being hypocritical.

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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
8/22/2017, 4:27 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


Before we talk of sanitizing history we need to understand what is being memorialized.

Who erected the monuments when, and what political climate so the motives for doing so.
Is correcting past revisionism correcting or "sanitizing"
... so who are the real revisionists ?

The Real Story Behind All Those Confederate Statues – Mother Jones
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7 days ago - Most of these monuments were not erected right after the Civil War. In fact, all the way to 1890 there were very few statues or monuments ...


Here's Why Robert E. Lee Opposed Putting Up Confederate Monuments
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6 days ago - Here's Why Robert E. Lee Opposed Putting Up Confederate Monuments ... E. Lee's Civil War and His Decision That Changed American History ...

How The U.S. Got So Many Confederate Monuments - History in the ...
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5 days ago - Most of these monuments did not go up immediately after the war's end in 1865. During that time, commemorative markers of the Civil War tended to be ... “The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, ...

So what was the real purpose of erecting them ? To sanitize traitors just afraid that someone MIGHT end slavery, or to sanitize the Jim Crowe Laws ?
 
Which of those forms of revisionist sanitation is being supported by white supremacists right now ?


Last edited by Geezess, 8/22/2017, 5:12 pm
8/22/2017, 4:52 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


--Log in or sign up to see linked image content--


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Is there a connection ?

"1895-1915: With blacks disenfranchised and Jim Crow laws safely in place, Southern whites continue their campaign of terror against blacks. This era features continued lynchings, the growing popularity of “Lost Cause” revisionist histories, a resurgence of white supremacy organizations like the KKK, and the erection of Confederate statues and monuments in large numbers."

So what was the real purpose ?

Last edited by Geezess, 8/22/2017, 5:03 pm
8/22/2017, 4:59 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


An ENTIRE 40 Actually FORTY monuments so sacrilegious in the 1960's.

And no Most do not depict a gregarious society or profess the shortcomings or the benefits of any nationality they were raised as the unit at Arlington to honor those that died, nothing more. The few that honored the generals or the President of the Confederacy I would have issue as to the honoring part but the as the South lost they WERE reconciled, a act that none of you seem to accept or appreciate.

Those days are gone, allow the history to die with those bad days, the statues can stand as Mute testament to the horrid days so as never to repeat them, Oh but you all cannot forgive anyone, I keep forgetting that.
8/22/2017, 7:15 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: The onlt "Sane" Response heard


quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

I certainly agree with Condoleeza that sanitizing history is a bad thing. But she's wrong about what it is that sanitizes history. It's putting the statues in places of honor, with plaques that praise their bravery, that sanitize history.



The plaques need to be replaced with accounts of the truth.
8/22/2017, 8:12 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


That would serve yobbo, but the vast majority ignored these monuments until recently so the plaques would serve few.

I believe placing attention to them was bad but attempting to sanitize by removal and rename is worse yet.
 
8/22/2017, 8:41 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: The only "Sane" Response heard


John yours is the exaggerated version of someone wearing a flag of 'Rebellion' as to rebelling against societal norms not empowering slavery or denoting a return to Jim Crow laws or any of the ideals set forth by the Confederacy. Ask the kids and some of them dimwits as to their 'Why' they have to decorate the style with Confederate Battle Flags and they will allude to only that simplistic answer they feel "Rebellious". You exaggerate within your own overwhelming need to destroy any vestige of what YOU consider a issue or see as a moniker of enslavement, just YOUR opinion not theirs. Now address that to KKK or any other White supremacist group and yes you get to their vision or envisioned issue but those are a handful at best in the US. as to numbers.

Now as to those exaggerated concerns, doing such Noble Good Deeds and Showing off to the Media so the Do-Gooding persons can have their day in the Sun and noticed for doing more good by demonstrated tearing down those Evil Nasty statues than those about them these are attention seeking idiots and need be reigned in or removed from the streets as they cause ever more uncontrolled damage.
8/22/2017, 8:50 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 


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