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mais oui Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

The list was skewed.




So post some actual figures, what makes you think that 2011 figures were used in preparation of the 19/100 000 figure.
POST YOUR FIGURES
I agree however that the list is skewed it adds together all the police deaths to give a global figure for the whole of the US but the risk is not equal in every location - unlike most other dangerous jobs where the risks are similar where ever you work

combined death rates for police and correctional officers - 5 year average (2012) range from a low of 12.4 per 100 000 (Maine) to a high of 23 per 100 000 (S Dakota)







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9/19/2017, 6:58 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

The list was skewed.




So post some actual figures, what makes you think that 2011 figures were used in preparation of the 19/100 000 figure.
POST YOUR FIGURES
I agree however that the list is skewed it adds together all the police deaths to give a global figure for the whole of the US but the risk is not equal in every location - unlike most other dangerous jobs where the risks are similar where ever you work

combined death rates for police and correctional officers - 5 year average (2012) range from a low of 12.4 per 100 000 (Maine) to a high of 23 per 100 000 (S Dakota)





{...
Of the 116 officers killed last year, all but one of whom were men, 51 died in traffic incidents. Traffic remains the largest cause of death for 12 years running, according to data from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. Guns, meanwhile, killed 49 officers.
...}

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126800395

And that was from a particularly bad year.
Normally there are even fewer shooting deaths, so the traffic deaths are even larger %.
9/19/2017, 7:22 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


Of the 116 officers killed last year, all but one of whom were men, 51 died in traffic incidents. Traffic remains the largest cause of death for 12 years running, according to data from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. Guns, meanwhile, killed 49 officers.
...}


and - just out of interest - how many fishermen/ loggers (the most dangerous occupations) were killed by gun shot?

I was going to say that it doesnt matter how you end up dead you are equally dead, but that isnt true the perception of families seems to be that it is many times worse to lose a loved one to murder rthan to accident.

this year (2017)




Line of Duty Deaths: 94
9/11 related illness: 3
Aircraft accident: 2
Animal related: 1
Assault: 2
Automobile crash: 22
Boating accident: 2
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 2
Exposure to toxins: 1
Gunfire: 33
Heart attack: 9
Motorcycle crash: 3
Stabbed: 1
Struck by vehicle: 3
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 3

Last year (2016)

Line of Duty Deaths: 146
9/11 related illness: 4
Aircraft accident: 1
Animal related: 1
Assault: 3
Automobile crash: 20
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 1
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 63
Gunfire (Accidental): 3
Heart attack: 11
Motorcycle crash: 8
Stabbed: 1
Struck by train: 1
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 4
Vehicular assault: 13

 
and 2015
Line of Duty Deaths: 141
9/11 related illness: 12
Accidental: 2
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 3
Automobile crash: 27
Bomb: 6
Drowned: 1
Duty related illness: 2
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 41
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 18
Motorcycle crash: 4
Struck by vehicle: 4
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 8
Weather/Natural disaster: 1

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9/19/2017, 8:17 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

mais oui wrote:

Of the 116 officers killed last year, all but one of whom were men, 51 died in traffic incidents. Traffic remains the largest cause of death for 12 years running, according to data from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. Guns, meanwhile, killed 49 officers.
...}


and - just out of interest - how many fishermen/ loggers (the most dangerous occupations) were killed by gun shot?

I was going to say that it doesnt matter how you end up dead you are equally dead, but that isnt true the perception of families seems to be that it is many times worse to lose a loved one to murder rthan to accident.

this year (2017)




Line of Duty Deaths: 94
9/11 related illness: 3
Aircraft accident: 2
Animal related: 1
Assault: 2
Automobile crash: 22
Boating accident: 2
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 2
Exposure to toxins: 1
Gunfire: 33
Heart attack: 9
Motorcycle crash: 3
Stabbed: 1
Struck by vehicle: 3
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 3

Last year (2016)

Line of Duty Deaths: 146
9/11 related illness: 4
Aircraft accident: 1
Animal related: 1
Assault: 3
Automobile crash: 20
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 1
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 63
Gunfire (Accidental): 3
Heart attack: 11
Motorcycle crash: 8
Stabbed: 1
Struck by train: 1
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 4
Vehicular assault: 13

 
and 2015
Line of Duty Deaths: 141
9/11 related illness: 12
Accidental: 2
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 3
Automobile crash: 27
Bomb: 6
Drowned: 1
Duty related illness: 2
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 41
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 18
Motorcycle crash: 4
Struck by vehicle: 4
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 8
Weather/Natural disaster: 1





The taxi drivers, convenience store clerk, etc., have a much higher rate of murder than police do.
Again, no one has a motive to attack police.
When ever police are attacked, it is something police have done wrong that caused it.

Did Robin Hood have a justification for attacking the Sheriff of Nottingham or not?
9/19/2017, 8:27 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


The taxi drivers, convenience store clerk, etc., have a much higher rate of murder than police do.


Source?

quote:

Again, no one has a motive to attack police


and every crime HAS to have a motive?
(if only all criminals were as logical as you suggest)

quote:

When ever police are attacked, it is something police have done wrong that caused it.



'something wrong' like stopping a criminal from committing serious crime, being about to deprive a criminal of his freedom?
those sort of "something wrongs"

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9/19/2017, 8:32 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

and every crime HAS to have a motive?
(if only all criminals were as logical as you suggest)-mais



They don't have to be logical to have a motive for their crime. They always do.

quote:

something wrong' like stopping a criminal from committing serious crime, being about to deprive a criminal of his freedom?
those sort of "something wrongs"



In this case it was something wrong. Shooting and killing a guy who was just dazed by an inflated air bag and not a threat. Waging a "war on drugs" is also wrong.

This society takes people who are no threat to anyone and turns them into a threat in its efforts to keep people from using drugs that they want to use. They sometimes become a threat because they really don't want to go to prison for years on lame drug charges.
9/19/2017, 10:07 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

They always do



you dont believe in motiveless crime?


quote:

In this case it was something wrong. Shooting and killing a guy who was just dazed by an inflated air bag and not a threat. Waging a "war on drugs" is also wrong.



here you are conflating two things, unnecessarily shooting an unarmed man (who you say was dazed) is illegal the war on drugs is not illegal and in the minds of most people is not a wrong.

But away from this particular case no one has yet shown that police shootings
are ALWAYS the result of the police doing something wrong

quote:

The taxi drivers, convenience store clerk, etc., have a much higher rate of murder than police do.



taxi driovers yes convenience store clerks no


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9/19/2017, 10:28 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

you dont believe in motiveless crime?-mais



No.

quote:

here you are conflating two things, unnecessarily shooting an unarmed man (who you say was dazed) is illegal the war on drugs is not illegal and in the minds of most people is not a wrong.



True, but it is morally wrong to lock up people in prison who have done nothing that is morally wrong like selling something to people that they have a right to buy. People believing it is OK doesn't alter that fact.

That being the case it is also morally wrong to provoke them into fleeing from the police to avoid going to prison for a long time.

quote:

But away from this particular case no one has yet shown that police shootings are ALWAYS the result of the police doing something wrong.



True. That would be a difficult thing to demonstrate. Police officers are sometimes shot in domestic violence situations when they haven't done anything wrong other than inadequately protect themselves. Part of the problem seems to be that they underestimate the threat posed by the criminals in those situations and may even identify with them rather than consider them to be scum. Of course many of them are closer to being scum than drug dealers.
9/19/2017, 10:45 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

They always do



you dont believe in motiveless crime?


quote:

In this case it was something wrong. Shooting and killing a guy who was just dazed by an inflated air bag and not a threat. Waging a "war on drugs" is also wrong.



here you are conflating two things, unnecessarily shooting an unarmed man (who you say was dazed) is illegal the war on drugs is not illegal and in the minds of most people is not a wrong.

But away from this particular case no one has yet shown that police shootings
are ALWAYS the result of the police doing something wrong

quote:

The taxi drivers, convenience store clerk, etc., have a much higher rate of murder than police do.



taxi driovers yes convenience store clerks no


Image




No, there is no such think as a motiveless crime.
Crimes have risks and consequences. Anyone who would do take on such a negative without any motive at all would have to be so insane they could not even tie their own shoes.

There are crimes of violence that have no monitary intent, but they still have a motive in that they are venting, revenge, etc.

The type of danger on jobs is totally and completely irrelevant.
It is clear police do NOT at all have a significantly dangerous job.

Image
9/19/2017, 10:45 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Reasonable doubt or bias?


quote:

The type of danger on jobs is totally and completely irrelevant



Errrr it was you who raised it!

quote:

The taxi drivers, convenience store clerk, etc., have a much higher rate of murder than police do



But AGAIN for possibly the third time now, logging is dangerous where ever you do it it isnt significantly more dangerous in one place than it is in another - the risk is pretty much standard.

This is not true of the police, policing in much of the country is peaceful and reasonably safe in other areas however it is very much more dangerous - the risk is not standard.

If you compared the risks in a city with a high violent crime rate I dont think that they would compare quite so favourably with logging.

If you were to look at the situation in UK, in England where mostly things are quite peaceful the police are not generally armed (with guns) but in some places where there is an enhanced risk - mainly London they do have guns AND here in Northern Ireland where the risk is still pretty high police not only have guns when on duty thay also carry them off duty

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9/19/2017, 10:57 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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