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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


No kidding, maybe their own house.

As to Gulags, we do not force the confined to eat grass, we do not Run Abu Ghraib(Iraq does) and Bagram is an airbase NOT a prison even as it does have a US Stockade military jail. Guantanamo prisoners are housed, fed and clothed by the US, they do not have to rely on what they can scrape up nor do they have to work on endless functionless or dangerous 'projects' nor are they routinely beaten to prove a point they can be.

I have not heard of any 'Inhumane' killings by firing squads with a AA gun taking limbs off as target practice in the US r using starved animals to kill a enemy have you??
A bad load or not enough load of death inducing drugs is a far cry from where you suggest as 'Inhumane' as the human body will contort even as the brain has died as the muscle groups contract expand where nervous system signals continue to fire randomly. Have seen it in wild and domesticated animals, where in a human would be no different.
9/20/2017, 12:20 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


I don't know how long Rachel's shows stay online until they are removed, Hawk. I'm sure removing that one before you saw it was not personal.

You can find bits of it on YouTube, but I'm not finding the whole interview anywhere now.
9/20/2017, 12:45 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

As to Gulags, we do not force the confined to eat grass



indeed not! you force tubes up their backsides and pump food into them - but only if that doesnt interfere with the 'enhanced interogation'.

quote:

we do not Run Abu Ghraib(Iraq does)



so why was it commanded by Brigadier General Janis Karpinski and why were the staff all US military personell?

--Log in or sign up to see linked image content--


quote:

Bagram is an airbase NOT a prison even as it does have a US Stockade military jail.



that will no doubt come as a great comfort to the Afghans held, tortured and occasionally murdered there!


quote:

Guantanamo prisoners are housed, fed and clothed by the US



and chained to the floor, tortured, and abused



quote:

I have not heard of any 'Inhumane' killings by firing squads with a AA gun taking limbs off as target practice in the US r using starved animals to kill a enemy have you??



No but I have heard of prisoners taking over an hour to die, I have even heard of the execution having to be paused so that the executioner could take a break!



If the state is allowed to torture a prisoner to death then the method of really doesnt matter too much!


quote:

the human body will contort even as the brain has died as the muscle groups contract expand where nervous system signals continue to fire randomly.



Ah! so that is what happened with Rommel Broom, his execution started at [sign in to see URL] at [sign in to see URL] when he ate dinner it was just 'muscle groups contract expand where nervous system signals continue to firing randomly'

apparently they are still firing randomly 5 years after his execution started (thats when the supreme court decreed that he shouldnt be executed again)
9/20/2017, 1:06 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


You describe a FAILED execution to which no he cannot be executed again much as a hanging if the neck does not snap and the hanged does survive, happened more than once.

As to Abu Ghraib, you speak of ancient history as to the INDIVIDUALS in the prison running amok NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ORDERS to do so, different experience. As to the refusal to eat and effect to starve to death for martyrdom, I say go ahead and force feed them, keep them alive or if they so choose to be executed for crimes committed under military law take them out and shoot them civilly.

So what other fine examples of Government Gulag IN the USA do you have? Abu is Iraq, Guatanamo Cuba, Bagram Afghanistan.
9/20/2017, 4:58 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

You describe a FAILED execution to which no he cannot be executed again much as a hanging if the neck does not snap and the hanged does survive, happened more than once.

As to Abu Ghraib, you speak of ancient history as to the INDIVIDUALS in the prison running amok NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ORDERS to do so, different experience. As to the refusal to eat and effect to starve to death for martyrdom, I say go ahead and force feed them, keep them alive or if they so choose to be executed for crimes committed under military law take them out and shoot them civilly.

So what other fine examples of Government Gulag IN the USA do you have? Abu is Iraq, Guatanamo Cuba, Bagram Afghanistan.



Removing anyone from the country of capture without their permission is a war crime.
Not treating Taliban or Iraqi prisoner as POWs was a war crime.
Any base under US control is under US law, so Abu Grahib, Guantanamo, Bagram, etc. were supposed to be subject to US law.
Every single soldier is sworn to uphold the Constitution, so has to defend those same right to any civilian. And any POW is automatically to be given POW rights until a trial rules otherwise.
9/20/2017, 5:38 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Incorrect bubba, they are entitled to MILITARY law ad justice NOT US law as applies to citizens.

POW is defined by Geneva Convention and nothing else unless a nation's military decides to something more.
9/20/2017, 5:42 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


[sign in to see URL]

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9/20/2017, 5:52 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Incorrect bubba, they are entitled to MILITARY law ad justice NOT US law as applies to citizens.

POW is defined by Geneva Convention and nothing else unless a nation's military decides to something more.



When you enter the military and swear to uphold the constitution, then you are bound to the constitution's belief that the inherent rights of individuals is the only source of authority.
That means ALL individuals. Citizenship or location has nothing at all to do with the believe in the inherent rights of all individuals.

It is true that not everyone has full rights in a distant land under US military occupation, but it is only US personnel who do not. That is because US personnel voluntarily give up some rights when they enlist. Foreign nationals do NOT give up any rights, so must be given full rights as any US citizen would. They can be given tribunals instead of jury trials, but that is only because jury trials may not be available in some distant location. It is not because they are not afforded the same rights as as those in the US.
Anywhere under US control has to be afforded full US rights.
Anyone who believes otherwise would have to not believe in the basis of the constitution, which is the inherent rights of all individuals.
And then that would mean they don't believe in the Declaration of Independence either, which is based on the belief of inherent rights.
US rights are not supposed to be a privilege that can be granted or rescinded arbitrarily. The only reason rights can be ignored is if the person has violated the law, endangered the rights of others, and had a trial where a judge forfeit those inherent rights.
9/20/2017, 6:00 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


The suspicion is Kim will now send even more missiles aloft, just to prove a point:

[sign in to see URL]%e2%80%99s-speech-experts-say/ar-AAsfCOm?li=BBnb7Kz

While it sounds bad, it does deplete the little war monger's treasure trove of toys at his disposal. I have no doubt manufacture is up at a relative rapid pace but these machines have to be attended to deliberately during construction or as haste makes waste it also causes errors and faults they will not see until launched.
9/20/2017, 6:08 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


 I say go ahead and force feed them, keep them alive or if they so choose to be executed for crimes committed under military law take them out and shoot them civilly.


Most civilized countries think force feeding amounts to torture - it is certain cruel and inhuman and your constitution has a few things to say about that.

As for executing them under military law wouldnt you first have to charge them? most of teh Guantanamo captives havent been charged with anything much less convicted.

*Only one Guantanamo captive has been convicted in a federal court

* only three Guantanamo captive have been convicted by military commission

*26 are being held indefinately without charge or trial

*38 of the current 41 captives have been held for more than 10 years


"if you tolerate this themn your children will be next" - Republican slogan of the Spanish civil war
9/20/2017, 6:50 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Follow Military Code of Conduct for law, they are EPW, Enemy Prisoners of War, end of charges and beginning of time spent in jail.
9/20/2017, 8:42 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Follow Military Code of Conduct for law, they are EPW, Enemy Prisoners of War, end of charges and beginning of time spent in jail.



POWs don't spend any time in jail, and have to be given their own uniforms, mail, commissary privileges, etc.
With POWs you can't even question them beyond their name, rank, and serial number.
Waterboarding like we did was a crime even back in 1911 when we prosecuted US soldiers for it.
{...
During the Spanish-American War, a U.S. soldier, Major Edwin Glenn, was suspended from command for one month and fined $50 for using "the water cure." In his review, the Army judge advocate said the charges constituted "resort to torture with a view to extort a confession." He recommended disapproval because "the United States cannot afford to sanction the addition of torture."
...}



Last edited by Rigby5, 9/20/2017, 10:34 pm
9/20/2017, 10:34 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Cooter you do realise that you are applying the phrase "Enemy Prisoners of War" incorrectly?

If those In guantanamo are EPW they have certain rights(far too many for me to go into) under the 1929 Geneva convention, the captives at Guantanamo and elsewhere are denied almost all of those rights - if the captives are EPW then the US is guilty of war crimes.

Your government - being smarter than you - realised this and does not refer to them as EPW rather they refer to them as "'unlawful enemy combatants" a phrase which is without legal meaning or status.

You cannot apply military justice to people who are not soldiers and anyway being at a state of war (even against America) is not an illegal act.

People who engage in quasi military acts on US soil are terrorists and there is plenty of leglislation to cover that, but Iraqis in Iraq fighting to liberate their country from an invading army are not committing any criminal offence for which the US has jurisdiction.

Some of those detained in Guantanamo were not even detained in Iraq,Afghanistan or any other place where the US is prosecuting a war. Nor were they (at the time of their detention) engaged in any activity which was opposed to any US interest.


9/20/2017, 11:03 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Exactly.
You can be a civilian and have full rights.
You can be a POW and have some restrictions on rights.
Or you can have a trial that makes you a criminal with very restricted rights to the point you have almost none.

There is no legal grouping known as unlawful enemy combatant.
If they commit war crimes, such as attacking civilians, espionage or sabotage out of uniform, then they are tried as criminals.

The source of the unlawful enemy combatant came from the Military Commissions Act of 2006, and it is not at all legal in my opinion, going against US and international law.

{...
What is the definition of “unlawful enemy combatant” under the MCA and how does it comport with international law?

The MCA expands the definition of “combatant” to include those who have “purposefully and materially” supported hostilities against the United States, even if they have not taken part in the hostilities themselves, and even if they are arrested far from the battlefield. This turns ordinary civilians – such as a mother giving food to her combatant son, an individual who sends money to a banned group, or a U.S. resident who commits a criminal act unrelated to armed conflict – into “combatants” who can be placed in military custody and hauled before a military commission.

An additional – and circular – provision specifies that anyone who has been determined to be an “unlawful enemy combatant” by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal (the military boards convened to allow detainees at Guantanamo Bay to contest their status as combatants, called CSRTs) or “another competent tribunal” established by the president or the defense secretary is presumed to be an enemy combatant for the purposes of military commissions. This provision does not include any substantive criteria to guide the deliberations of such tribunals. And, notably, the definition of enemy combatant that has been used by the CSRTs at Guantanamo is even broader than the definition contained in the legislation, encompassing even the unknowing financier of a charitable arm of a terrorist organization. In at least one known case, a CSRT labeled a detainee an enemy combatant for precisely that reason.1

These definitions have essentially been invented by the administration and Congress. They have no basis in international law and undermine one of the most fundamental pillars of the Geneva Conventions – the distinction between combatants, who engage in hostilities and are subject to attack, and non-combatants.
...}

][sign in to see URL]

{...
The United States Military Commissions Act of 2006,[1] also known as HR-6166, was an Act of Congress[2] signed by President George W. Bush on October 17, 2006. The Act's stated purpose was "to authorize trial by military commission for violations of the law of war, and for other purposes".[3]

It was drafted following the Supreme Court's decision on Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (2006),[4] which ruled that the Combatant Status Review Tribunals (CSRT), as established by the United States Department of Defense, were procedurally flawed and unconstitutional, and did not provide protections under the Geneva Conventions. It prohibited detainees who had been classified as enemy combatants or were awaiting hearings on their status from using habeas corpus to petition federal courts in challenges to their detention. All pending habeas corpus cases at the federal district court were stayed.

In Boumediene v. Bush (2008), the US Supreme Court held that section 7 of the MCA was unconstitutional because of its restrictions of detainee rights. It determined that detainees had the right to petition federal courts for habeas corpus challenges.
...}

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9/21/2017, 12:59 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


The Military Commissions Act only applies to US troops, NOT enemy Combatants is why no reference to them. The GC does as do certain During actions of War declarations.
9/21/2017, 11:04 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Cooter: "
As to Abu Ghraib, you speak of ancient history as to the INDIVIDUALS in the prison running amok NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ORDERS to do so, different experience."

Maybe not, but the federal government, that is, the Bush administration, gave them permission to commit torture by redefining torture as anything that causes organ failure or death. And even then, the perpetrator would have to have the intent to cause organ failure or death to be held accountable. You've heard of the Bybee memo?
9/21/2017, 1:20 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


the events at Abu Ghriab (and elsewhere) fall under the legal dictum of "respondeat superior" which in brief means that the master if responsible for the actions of his servants.

9/21/2017, 1:28 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Still does not meet the documented level of atrocity in the NK gulags and won't ever. Lack of food, made to eat what grass/bugs/refuse waste they can find, no benefit of being known as prisoner, no known trials or release dates if ever and forced labor use. I can not see this in any reference you have made.
9/21/2017, 7:16 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

no benefit of being known as prisoner



many of the US captives held around the world were held in secret, no one knew who had them why they had them or where they were. The US secretly flew captives around the world to places where they could be tortured no questions asked.

quote:

no known trials or release dates



few of the captives held by the US had either trials or charges and none had a release date.


quote:

forced labor use


admittedly unlike American prisoners the captives were not used as forced labor.


I think it is great that you prefer to compare your country to the worst so as to make it look better (when really it is only very slightly better)
9/21/2017, 7:35 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


The UK does not have this condition? Or are you just unaware of it so it does not exist?
9/21/2017, 7:46 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


China is tiring of Kim:

[url][sign in to see URL]
9/21/2017, 7:54 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

The UK does not have this condition?



the UK does not hold captives in over seas prisons, although we so seem to have some role in the taking and shipping of captives for the US.

The UK did briefly become engaged in using 'enhanced interogation' (torture) in the early 1970s when it was used against a small number of IRA prisoners.

And we did famously lock up suspected terrorists without trial in the early 1970s (and 1950s) but the conditions in which they were held and the rights they were granted were far better than the case in Guantanamo etc - that said it was still wrong.
9/21/2017, 10:33 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Still Trump's less than politically correct dialogue seems to have drawn the Fat moron out to rant:

[url][sign in to see URL]
9/22/2017, 12:15 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


I posted this story from another source in a new thread two minutes after you had posted yours, Cooter, before I had seen it. So the board is getting two accounts of the same story.

I guess we'll be on the front lines of the end of the world.
9/22/2017, 12:21 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


quote:

Still Trump's less than politically correct dialogue seems to have drawn the Fat moron out to rant:




there are two 'fat morons' ranting.
you only seem to want to criticise one of them
9/22/2017, 2:45 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: North Korea launched another missile over Japan


Yes the black haired moron is learning a lot from the orange haired moron.
9/22/2017, 7:45 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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One of the fat morons is NOT in my Nation.
9/22/2017, 8:00 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Oh yes he is by his words, he has a brother from another mother. Fat twins.
9/23/2017, 1:36 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 


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