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What is happening to liberals in this country?


What is happening to liberals in this country?

Conservatives students at UC Berkeley face everything from insults to threats of violence. While UC-Berkeley does not keep statistics on its students’ political leanings, the school has long been known as one of the country’s centers for liberal and progressive thought and now – following a slew of high profile, violent protests against controversial conservative speakers on campus – Chow and other likeminded students say that life has become more difficult for anyone

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[I don't like Milo Yiannopoulos, Ben Shapiro or Ann Coulter but who cares? They have a right to speak at any gathering, anywhere they are invited to. Many young liberals at liberal universities seem to think they have the right to decide when free speech ends and where one acceptable view of the world begins. Is this what progressive liberalism has become? Is this "progressive"?

We can't call the right wing "fascists" when we act like a bunch of brown shirts storming around in our psychological jackboots! We should be listening to other views quietly and respectively then go our way peacefully. Threats and smashing heads should never be our way of dealing with other ideas. What do you think? Do you [sign in to see URL] not?]



---
--------------------------------------------------------------
"libido sciendi"..... the passion to know.
10/12/2017, 10:15 am Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


They cannot have their designed 'way' with the nation as they had for the last eight years and in infantile gesture seek to lash out in tantrums.

VERY childish attitudes much as when Hillary was NOT announced as winner sitting on the ground screaming "NOOOOOO". Much as a spoiled brat.
10/12/2017, 12:09 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


First off, I oppose the use of violence or threats of violence. Anyone that does so is not on my side, even if we seek the same goals.

If you listen to the disgusting things these people (Milo Yiannopoulos, Ben Shapiro or Ann Coulter) say, do you truly expect others to respond with respect?

Speaking at a university isn't a right, it's a privilege. And while listening to different views is a good thing, there are limits.

Is there any point at which we say someone should not be given a platform? If someone wants to speak about why rape is a good thing, should they be welcomed?

That's a part of the problem in the U.S. today; We have people saying horrible things and it's treated like nothing. Maybe that's why we have a president who talked about groping women.

I'll gladly listen to different views - things like why we shouldn't raise taxes or raise the minimum wage - but when someone presents views that blacks or Muslims are inferior to whites, end of discussion.

And when allow people to talk like that, when we turn it into 'a different opinion', it validates it.

It's like saying that both MLK and Hitler said something worth considering.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
10/12/2017, 2:07 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


I agree John and I also think as adults coming out owing thousands of dollars for their education, students also have rights.
10/12/2017, 3:31 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


There are 2 seemingly opposing concept here, so don't jump to conclusions.

First of all, it is way past the time for starting to use violence. Things like the lies used to murder over a million Iraqis and Afghans are more than enough reason to start stringing people up to lamp posts. In fact it is irresponsible not to. And that goes for those preventing single payer as well.

But those CALLING themselves liberals are not at all. There is nothing liberal at all about the Clintons, supporting the federal crime bill, mandatory private health insurance, gun control, wars including Somalia, Bosnia, Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Iran, etc.

Let me repeat this, it is impossible to be a real liberal, (believe in equality and individual liberties), and support gun control, (the elite having a monopoly on the source of all political power).

The problem is not violence. That is long over due. The problem is not knowing anything, being totally ignorant, and just wanting things you don't understand.
10/12/2017, 3:39 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?
10/12/2017, 3:52 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Another question would be; Where were all the gun owners when we went and murdered all those Iraqis and Afghans? What's the point of owning guns to prevent this "tyranny" if they are never used to stop it?


---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
10/12/2017, 5:38 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


I do not believe in defeating our opponents by becoming them.

---
--------------------------------------------------------------
"libido sciendi"..... the passion to know.
10/12/2017, 5:55 pm Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?
10/13/2017, 12:21 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

John1959 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Another question would be; Where were all the gun owners when we went and murdered all those Iraqis and Afghans? What's the point of owning guns to prevent this "tyranny" if they are never used to stop it?



They were lied to and believed the lies at the time. (I was never fooled.)
But now that we know it was all lies, how do we not act on that injustice, and how do we prevent repetition?

(we certainly can not prevent repetition by disarming everyone but the Military Industrial Complex.)

The hesitancy to use personal weapons against a corrupt state is not a failing, but proof that ordinary citizens are inherently less violent and therefore vastly superior to paid mercenaries like police or the military.
10/13/2017, 12:26 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

Noserose wrote:

I do not believe in defeating our opponents by becoming them.



The ONLY ways to defend lives is to defeat evil and that means using stronger violence than they have.
You don't defeat someone like Hitler by being more moral. You do it by having better weapons.
Killing people with powerful weapons is not diminishing ones self, but simply using our instinct to protect the weak.
To not use violence against evil would be to become an accomplice, which is far worse.

If you and your children were attacked by a mountain lion, would you feel it was better to remain nonviolent and let you and your children be killed?

How is a human monster any more deserving of life than a mountain lion?
10/13/2017, 12:31 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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It sounds like Rigby is advocating killing conservatives.
10/13/2017, 8:52 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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There has always been an intolerant left-wing fringe. The fallacy is in trying to discredit liberalism by saying because of this fringe liberalism is intolerant when you scratch it. The difference between its being OK to kill human monsters and killing mountain lions is that human monsters are entitled to due process first; otherwise it would be open season on liberals right now.
10/13/2017, 10:42 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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There's no excuse for violence or threats of violence from anyone.

Comparing fighting for changes in policies to fighting Hitler is ridiculous. If people used violence every time they wanted to bring about changes, our country would be in chaos.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
10/13/2017, 3:47 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Our country is NOT in chaos, John?
10/13/2017, 3:58 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

Our country is NOT in chaos, John?



OK, well even more chaos than it is now.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
10/13/2017, 4:30 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


So what happening with conservatives, these days ?

See:
1) Trump threatens to abandon Puerto Rico
2) Trump's plan to scrap critical health care subsidies will cost the government more.

Threads here.

10/13/2017, 5:31 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?
10/13/2017, 6:54 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

Speaking at a university isn't a right, it's a privilege. And while listening to different views is a good thing, there are [sign in to see URL]



I agree but who gets to decide what those limits are? You're talking about what amounts to a form of censorship.

quote:

Is there any point at which we say someone should not be given a platform? If someone wants to speak about why rape is a good thing, should they be welcomed?



No, but I doubt that anyone would make such a stupid claim and if they did, that any university would have them as a speaker.

quote:

That's a part of the problem in the U.S. today; We have people saying horrible things and it's treated like nothing. Maybe that's why we have a president who talked about groping women.



When you have a society that has degenerated to the point where it is OK to call women the B word on TV while still rejecting other insulting terms like the N word it's not surprising. Why would anyone be surprised that such a sexist society would manage to put someone like Trump in office when he was running against a woman? Some people even referred to Hillary that way among other hateful terms.

quote:

I'll gladly listen to different views - things like why we shouldn't raise taxes or raise the minimum wage - but when someone presents views that blacks or Muslims are inferior to whites, end of discussion.



I've been called a bigot just for being critical of Islam. Going further and not allowing someone to criticize it in a public forum on a university campus is absurd. Islam needs to be examined and criticized a lot because it is a disruptive influence in the world.

quote:

And when allow people to talk like that, when we turn it into 'a different opinion', it validates it.



The problem is that sometimes it may be a valid opinion. We may not know until we hear what the speaker has to say.

quote:

It's like saying that both MLK and Hitler said something worth considering.



I have no problem with people pointing out how nonsensical that notion is but the main problem in this society is not political radicals speaking on campuses. It's the mass media tolerating similar bullshit and presenting it as a valid or at least acceptable viewpoint based merely on how much of the public agrees. That has a lot more to do with us seeing people like Trump elected than anyone speaking radically on campus.

10/14/2017, 2:17 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

It sounds like Rigby is advocating killing conservatives.



No, there is no inherent conflict between conservatives and liberals.

In fact, the idea of Bush invading Iraq without a formal congressional declaration of war was very liberal (in the sense of not being strictly constitutional), and my opposition to gun control is very conservative (strictly constitutional).

10/14/2017, 3:05 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

There has always been an intolerant left-wing fringe. The fallacy is in trying to discredit liberalism by saying because of this fringe liberalism is intolerant when you scratch it. The difference between its being OK to kill human monsters and killing mountain lions is that human monsters are entitled to due process first; otherwise it would be open season on liberals right now.



The human monsters are not capable of being given due process because they are about to take away all political power, through gun control.
You give due process AFTER you have arrested them.
If they have weapons pointed at you, you shoot them before than can shoot you.

It has been open season on liberals for a century at least.
What do you think those propaganda cartoons with the anarchist in black, carrying the round bomb with a fuse was for?
It was to justify the police and FBI arresting or murdering International Workers of the World, Progressive Labor, civil rights activives, Vietnam war protestors, etc.
How do you think over 10,000 people ended up being caught in a mass arrest in May Day, 1971?
10/14/2017, 3:12 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

John1959 wrote:

There's no excuse for violence or threats of violence from anyone.

Comparing fighting for changes in policies to fighting Hitler is ridiculous. If people used violence every time they wanted to bring about changes, our country would be in chaos.



There is no excuse for not threatening violence when criminal acts to end all rights are initiated.

Gun control is not a change in policy.
It is the totally and complete termination of all aspects of a democratic republic.
It is a move only the insane or despotic could possibly ever support.
It is the single most criminal thing anyone could ever do.
It is the destruction of everything a republic has fought to achieve.
10/14/2017, 3:15 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?



The people you IMAGINE running amok through the streets causing violence do not exist.
People are inherently social.
The violence is entirely and completely caused by those who deliberately create imbalances and injustice, in order to profit unfairly. And those people do not run through the streets.
Clearly you are being oppressed by unrealistic fears created by the oppressors.
And you are trying to convince me to give up freedom in exchange for temporary safety.
You should know better.
It never works, and the threat is never real.
10/14/2017, 3:20 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Speaking at a university isn't a right, it's a privilege. And while listening to different views is a good thing, there are [sign in to see URL]



I agree but who gets to decide what those limits are? You're talking about what amounts to a form of censorship.


There's a difference between censoring someone and saying we're not going to invite you to speak here.


quote:

Is there any point at which we say someone should not be given a platform? If someone wants to speak about why rape is a good thing, should they be welcomed?



No, but I doubt that anyone would make such a stupid claim and if they did, that any university would have them as a speaker.


But does it take something as extreme as my example before they won't have them as a speaker? When does someone cross the line? Or do we say there is no line, that no matter how disgusting someones opinions are, we should have them speak (because who is to say what is disgusting?)


quote:

That's a part of the problem in the U.S. today; We have people saying horrible things and it's treated like nothing. Maybe that's why we have a president who talked about groping women.



When you have a society that has degenerated to the point where it is OK to call women the B word on TV while still rejecting other insulting terms like the N word it's not surprising. Why would anyone be surprised that such a sexist society would manage to put someone like Trump in office when he was running against a woman? Some people even referred to Hillary that way among other hateful terms.


Good point.


quote:

I'll gladly listen to different views - things like why we shouldn't raise taxes or raise the minimum wage - but when someone presents views that blacks or Muslims are inferior to whites, end of discussion.



I've been called a bigot just for being critical of Islam. Going further and not allowing someone to criticize it in a public forum on a university campus is absurd. Islam needs to be examined and criticized a lot because it is a disruptive influence in the world.


quote:

And when allow people to talk like that, when we turn it into 'a different opinion', it validates it.



The problem is that sometimes it may be a valid opinion. We may not know until we hear what the speaker has to say.


quote:

It's like saying that both MLK and Hitler said something worth considering.



I have no problem with people pointing out how nonsensical that notion is but the main problem in this society is not political radicals speaking on campuses. It's the mass media tolerating similar bullshit and presenting it as a valid or at least acceptable viewpoint based merely on how much of the public agrees. That has a lot more to do with us seeing people like Trump elected than anyone speaking radically on campus.



I think it's all part of of the problem, because it validates these people. They speak at universities, on cable news, and some even have their own cable or radio programs. Trump was frequently on Fox News giving his opinions.


---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
10/14/2017, 4:00 am Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?



The people you IMAGINE running amok through the streets causing violence do not exist.
People are inherently social.
The violence is entirely and completely caused by those who deliberately create imbalances and injustice, in order to profit unfairly. And those people do not run through the streets.
Clearly you are being oppressed by unrealistic fears created by the oppressors.
And you are trying to convince me to give up freedom in exchange for temporary safety.
You should know better.
It never works, and the threat is never real.



I didn't imagine it, I am speaking of groups like anti-fa to white supremacists. It isn't something I imagine, it is something I see and since I was a protestor at Berkeley it isn't if I don't get it or I don't understand what oppression is and I stand by Franklin's, you do not give up liberty for safety. I do know better but you take it to a level that isn't acceptable and that is about you not me, although you would like to make it my problem when it is yours and I refuse to accept that role.
10/14/2017, 4:39 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?



The people you IMAGINE running amok through the streets causing violence do not exist.
People are inherently social.
The violence is entirely and completely caused by those who deliberately create imbalances and injustice, in order to profit unfairly. And those people do not run through the streets.
Clearly you are being oppressed by unrealistic fears created by the oppressors.
And you are trying to convince me to give up freedom in exchange for temporary safety.
You should know better.
It never works, and the threat is never real.



I didn't imagine it, I am speaking of groups like anti-fa to white supremacists. It isn't something I imagine, it is something I see and since I was a protestor at Berkeley it isn't if I don't get it or I don't understand what oppression is and I stand by Franklin's, you do not give up liberty for safety. I do know better but you take it to a level that isn't acceptable and that is about you not me, although you would like to make it my problem when it is yours and I refuse to accept that role.



I am not taking anything to any level.
I am simply stating the fact that a million being murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan is already way past the threshhold of what can be tolerated in a civilized society.
That high of a murder rate does warrant violence in the streets to stop it.
And gun control where the people who are committing those crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, is even worse.
Those people are anti-liberal and need to be quickly silenced.
Since millions are being murdered, we should already be at war.
I can see delaying if there is any alternative hope, but gun control is surrender to the enemy, who will then simply kill us all.
And that is totally and completely unacceptable to any sane or moral person.
10/14/2017, 5:16 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?



The people you IMAGINE running amok through the streets causing violence do not exist.
People are inherently social.
The violence is entirely and completely caused by those who deliberately create imbalances and injustice, in order to profit unfairly. And those people do not run through the streets.
Clearly you are being oppressed by unrealistic fears created by the oppressors.
And you are trying to convince me to give up freedom in exchange for temporary safety.
You should know better.
It never works, and the threat is never real.



I haven't imagined anything nor do I have unrealistic fears by those who oppress, anti-fa and white supremacists have both shown their faces in Portland and I think setting cars and garbage cans on fire, harassing citizens on the street not knowing what they believe in, is running amok. I have always agreed with Ben Franklin you do not give up liberty because of safety. I realize persons are social, I am a very social person and I see what you are willing to do has nothing to do with liberty or safety or being social but violence as an answer and you're willingness to be violent towards those who have taken no part in aggression but the violence you seem to approve of extremely bothers me and yet at the end of the day no one would really care about your opinion, these people would be willing to commit violence against you anyway, something you don't seem to understand, you are not their soul mate or their brother from another mother, their compadre, they don't give a darn about you, your opinions, thoughts or beliefs. Against this type of violence you would be toast as well unless you belong to and are active in a group otherwise you are no different than anyone else on the sidelines.
10/14/2017, 6:50 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

John1959 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Speaking at a university isn't a right, it's a privilege. And while listening to different views is a good thing, there are [sign in to see URL]



I agree but who gets to decide what those limits are? You're talking about what amounts to a form of censorship.


There's a difference between censoring someone and saying we're not going to invite you to speak here.


quote:

Is there any point at which we say someone should not be given a platform? If someone wants to speak about why rape is a good thing, should they be welcomed?



No, but I doubt that anyone would make such a stupid claim and if they did, that any university would have them as a speaker.


But does it take something as extreme as my example before they won't have them as a speaker? When does someone cross the line? Or do we say there is no line, that no matter how disgusting someones opinions are, we should have them speak (because who is to say what is disgusting?)


quote:

That's a part of the problem in the U.S. today; We have people saying horrible things and it's treated like nothing. Maybe that's why we have a president who talked about groping women.



When you have a society that has degenerated to the point where it is OK to call women the B word on TV while still rejecting other insulting terms like the N word it's not surprising. Why would anyone be surprised that such a sexist society would manage to put someone like Trump in office when he was running against a woman? Some people even referred to Hillary that way among other hateful terms.


Good point.


quote:

I'll gladly listen to different views - things like why we shouldn't raise taxes or raise the minimum wage - but when someone presents views that blacks or Muslims are inferior to whites, end of discussion.



I've been called a bigot just for being critical of Islam. Going further and not allowing someone to criticize it in a public forum on a university campus is absurd. Islam needs to be examined and criticized a lot because it is a disruptive influence in the world.


quote:

And when allow people to talk like that, when we turn it into 'a different opinion', it validates it.



The problem is that sometimes it may be a valid opinion. We may not know until we hear what the speaker has to say.


quote:

It's like saying that both MLK and Hitler said something worth considering.



I have no problem with people pointing out how nonsensical that notion is but the main problem in this society is not political radicals speaking on campuses. It's the mass media tolerating similar bullshit and presenting it as a valid or at least acceptable viewpoint based merely on how much of the public agrees. That has a lot more to do with us seeing people like Trump elected than anyone speaking radically on campus.



I think it's all part of of the problem, because it validates these people. They speak at universities, on cable news, and some even have their own cable or radio programs. Trump was frequently on Fox News giving his opinions.



They also write books and people read them. You can't silence them by stopping them from speaking at universities. Or shouting them down at universities. It just makes liberals at those universities look bad.

It also may be a shock to you, John, but what some of these folks say on occasion isn't false. When they criticize Islam for example there may be a bit of truth in that.

Both liberals and conservatives need to work on finding common ground which actually makes sense. Just refusing to listen to other opinions and branding them inflammatory or completely off limits is not the way to do that.

I realize that conservatives may be less willing to listen to the other side than liberals but neither side should be refusing to listen to what the other side has to say. When it's bullshit that needs to be pointed out and not simply branded as racism or bigotry etc.

Keep in mind that disagreeing with people and arguing against what they have to say is not validating them or what they are claiming to be true. One of the problems in our mass media is its high tolerance for bullshit in the name of avoiding biased reporting. College students don't have to engage in that sort of nonsense.

For that matter neither does the mass media. It has helped to create the wide political chasm we see now by helping to fertilize a lot of the political nonsense that has taken root in this country. It's almost as if it has been carefully cultivating it rather than treating it as destructive weeds in the garden.
10/14/2017, 7:55 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

So we kill persons in foreign countries is a reason to kill our own? Will you be first Rigby?



Absolutely when people in your own country have caused millions of innocent to be murdered, you have to start taking responsibility and fighting back with all the violence available to you.

I already did my stint.
It is for others to do theirs.
It should be clear to everyone the Military Industrial Complex must be destroyed, and they will fight back with violence.
So there is no way around the violence.

As an side, how can anyone think those millions murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan are any less important than people here, without being a racist bigot?
Would everyone here be up in arms if a million US citizens had been murdered by the Military Industrial Complex?
Of course they would.
How is that not an admission of racism?



I didn't make myself clear enough, remember the Weather Underground, they targeted govt. buildings and banks. What I'm talking about is the violence we see by those who just run amok through the streets causing violence, they don't ask hey were you against the wars, they ask no questions, so are you willing to be their victim?



The people you IMAGINE running amok through the streets causing violence do not exist.
People are inherently social.
The violence is entirely and completely caused by those who deliberately create imbalances and injustice, in order to profit unfairly. And those people do not run through the streets.
Clearly you are being oppressed by unrealistic fears created by the oppressors.
And you are trying to convince me to give up freedom in exchange for temporary safety.
You should know better.
It never works, and the threat is never real.



I haven't imagined anything nor do I have unrealistic fears by those who oppress, anti-fa and white supremacists have both shown their faces in Portland and I think setting cars and garbage cans on fire, harassing citizens on the street not knowing what they believe in, is running amok. I have always agreed with Ben Franklin you do not give up liberty because of safety. I realize persons are social, I am a very social person and I see what you are willing to do has nothing to do with liberty or safety or being social but violence as an answer and you're willingness to be violent towards those who have taken no part in aggression but the violence you seem to approve of extremely bothers me and yet at the end of the day no one would really care about your opinion, these people would be willing to commit violence against you anyway, something you don't seem to understand, you are not their soul mate or their brother from another mother, their compadre, they don't give a darn about you, your opinions, thoughts or beliefs. Against this type of violence you would be toast as well unless you belong to and are active in a group otherwise you are no different than anyone else on the sidelines.



The people running amok on the street are still the good guys, given the current conditions.
From antifa to white supremacists, they have better motivations than those trying to maintain the status quo.

I can get along with either extreme, because they all have the right motivation at heart. Many are just confused as to details.
10/14/2017, 3:38 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: What is happening to liberals in this country?


Rigby, do you have any limits as to the extent of the violence you support? You've already declared your support for terrorism and the events of 9/11. So would you stop at flying an airplane full of people into a building full of people? Or shooting a random individual on the street? Or would you be ok with chopping off a random individual's head with a machete?

What violence is ok, and what isn't?
10/14/2017, 4:36 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 


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