crogin
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Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/10/07/manchin-faces-firestorm-at-home-following-kavanaugh-vote/23553657/
Another profile in courage
emphasis added
The Associated Press
Squote: TEVE PEOPLES
Oct 7th 2018 6:33PM
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — Danielle Walker cried on Joe Manchin's shoulder after she shared her story of sexual assault in the senator's office. She thought he listened.
The 42-year-old Morgantown woman said she was both devastated and furious when Manchin became the only Democrat in the U.S. Senate to support President Donald Trump's Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh.
"I feel raped all over again," Walker told The Associated Press.
A day after Manchin broke with his party on what may be the most consequential vote of the Trump era, the vulnerable Democrat is facing a political firestorm back home. While Republicans — including one of the president's sons — are on the attack, the most passionate criticism is coming from Manchin's very own Democratic base, a small but significant portion of the electorate he needs to turn out in force to win re-election next month. A Manchin loss would put his party's hopes of regaining control of the Senate virtually out of reach.
Walker, a first-time Democratic candidate for the state legislature, said she may not vote at all in the state's high-stakes Senate election. Julia Hamilton, a 30-year-old educator who serves on the executive committee of the Monongalia County Democratic Party, vowed to sit out the Senate race as well.
"At some point you have to draw a line," Hamilton said. "I have heard from many, many people — especially women. They won't be voting for Manchin either."
Manchin defended his vote in a Sunday interview as being based on fact, not emotion. He praised the women who shared their stories of sexual trauma, Walker among them, but said he "could not find any type of link or connection" that Kavanaugh was a rapist.
The woman who testified to the Senate about Kavanaugh, Christine Blasey Ford, accused him of sexual assault but not rape when they were high school students more than 30 years ago. Two other women stepped forward late in the confirmation process to accuse the appeals court judge of sexual misconduct in high school or college. Their stories resonated with women who had suffered sexual trauma and fueled opposition to Kavanaugh's confirmation.
"They weren't going to be satisfied, or their healing process, until we convicted this person," Manchin told The Associated Press. "I couldn't do it. You talk about two wrongs trying to make a right. It just wasn't in my heart and soul to do that."
Manchin insisted over and over that his vote wasn't based on politics.
[bi]There is little doubt, however, that his vote was in line with the wishes of many West Virginia voters, who gave Trump a victory in 2016 by 42 percentage points. There simply aren't enough Democrats in the state to re-elect Manchin. He needs a significant chunk of Trump's base to win.
One West Virginia Trump supporter, 74-year-old Linda Ferguson, explained the politics bluntly as she watched the parade at Saturday's Mountain State Forest Festival in Elkins.
"If he didn't vote for Kavanaugh he could have kissed his seat goodbye," Ferguson said.
While he may have represented the majority of his state, Manchin's political challenges are far from over.
The clash over Kavanaugh, who was confirmed by the Senate on Saturday, has injected new energy into each party's political base. While that may help Democrats in their fight for the House majority, which is largely taking place in America's suburbs, there are signs it's hurting vulnerable Democrats in rural Republican-leaning states like North Dakota, Missouri and West Virginia. Phil Bredesen, who said he would have voted for Kavanaugh, could also face new challenges in his bid to flip Tennessee's Senate seat to the Democratic column.
For much of the year, Manchin has held a significant lead in public and private polls over his Republican opponent, state Attorney General Patrick Morrisey. Yet Republican operatives familiar with the race report a definite tightening over the last week.
In an interview, Morrisey called Democrats' fight against Kavanaugh a "three-ring circus" that "energized a lot of people in West Virginia."
He acknowledged that Manchin voted the right way for the state, but called the vote "irrelevant" because another swing vote, Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins, had already given Kavanaugh the final vote he needed.
"He waited until the last possible minute after Susan Collins declared for him to take a position, effectively allowing Maine to decide how West Virginia's going to decide," Morrisey charged. "We shouldn't reward that kind of cowardice."
Echoing the attack, Donald Trump Jr., mockingly called Manchin "a real profile in courage" on Twitter.
When asked about the social media jab, the West Virginia senator slapped away the insult from the younger Trump.
Donald Trump Jr. is "entitled to his opinion, he's just not entitled to his own facts to justify what he's saying. He doesn't really know anything," Manchin told the AP.
The Democrat conceded that he followed Collins' lead out of "respect" — he didn't want to get in the way of her high-profile Friday afternoon announcement on the Senate floor.
"Nothing would have changed my vote," Manchin declared. "Susan took the lead, Susan did the due diligence. ... She's going to give her speech and I'm not going to jump in front of 3 o'clock. I'm just not going to do it."
That wasn't good enough for Tammy Means, a 57-year-old florist from Charleston, who was among thousands tailgating outside West Virginia University's football stadium in Morgantown on Saturday.
Means, a registered Democrat who voted for Trump, said she also voted for Manchin in the past.
"I'm not going to anymore. Nope," she said with a laugh as she sipped a Smirnoff Ice. She's glad Manchin voted for Kavanaugh, but said, "He's just doing it so he can get elected."
Across the parking lot, 63-year-old John Vdovjac said he was deeply disappointed by Manchin's vote. Still, the Democrat said he'd probably vote for Manchin this fall.
"I recognize the position he's in because the state's heavily Republican now," said Vdovjac, a retired educator from Wheeling, as he helped grill hotdogs and hamburgers. "But he's lost my loyalty.
Manchin knows he needs to explain his vote to his constituents, although he didn't have any public events scheduled this weekend. Before and after the AP interview, conducted at Charleston's International House of Pancakes, he told everyone who would listen — including his waitress — that his Kavanaugh vote was not based on emotion.
"I made my decision based on facts," the senator told Kevin Estep, a 57-year-old registered Democrat and Trump voter who was eating buttered pancakes with his family.
"You hang in there and vote your heart," Estep, who lives in nearby St. Albans, told the senator.
After Manchin left the building, Estep warned that the #MeToo movement "is like a dam that's about to break open."
Asked whether he'd support Manchin this fall, he responded, "Always."
---
Don't try to tell me the only way left is up.
There's always more down!
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10/8/2018, 8:23 am
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Geezess
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
How bad is the Republican running against him ?
Liberals need to stop being politically emotional and get smart. We need to play the game from the kick off to final whistle to end all of Trump's winning.
Knowing that Collins was voting for Kavanaugh, so Pense would cast the vote to appoint Kavannay, is the very best that could happen, being angry with him is like someone who manipulatively stops talking to you at all, because they think you do not understand how they feel, or ever listen to them.
So, besides it being an emotional thing, why is him casting a symbolic vote for YOUR side, so important to some people, who are being just as tribal and dumb about it as Trump's "super elites", given that what he did might help him keep the seat and vote with the Dem. Party when it does has a majority and so a chance to win ?
Relative to a profile in courage, I'd give him points for playing smart effective politics even at risk of pissing off the overly emotional, but clearly ineffectual, element, of his "tribe", the expected core support.
Last edited by Geezess, 10/8/2018, 4:23 pm
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10/8/2018, 3:58 pm
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crogin
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
So constituents shouldn't be true to their beliefs and if they insist on doing so they are simply being "emotional"? Being "politically pragmatic" is better than being true to one's convictions? I don't think I can agree. I have no interest becoming a collaborator with the alt-right especially in dealing with something as important as a nominee to the Supreme Court!
---
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There's always more down!
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10/8/2018, 5:14 pm
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Geezess
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
Did I say that ?
Should you take your implications that I did so back, if you are really the better sort of idealist person that you wish to appear, and seem to I must be, too, ... just like you.
What, IYO, is the best way to actually implement those, better, higher beliefs, if it not play the game to win, crogin ?
But, okay, if being the victim, not winning, but just whining, is what you really want and need, I can understand that being some people's (emotional???) need, and if not respect it, on idealistic grounds of my own !! : ), okay I try to tolerate them and how if that it is your need, you are making a great sense. I can hear that.
So here is a simple question about how being " a collaborator with the alt-right especially in dealing with something as important as a nominee to the Supreme Court" really works.
Isn't that exactly what those those that did not vote for Clinton because Bernie was not the Dem. candidate did, in reality ?
They were ... how did you put it ... if it was more egoistically important to them to be " true to their beliefs and if they insist on doing, so (WHILE) they are simply being "emotional"
... in point of fact THEY WERE who were the collaborators
" with the alt-right especially in dealing with something as important as a nominee to the Supreme Court" because their idealist stand very well could have allowed Trump to be elected, RIGHT !!!
So can you answer the question I asked above:
"How bad is the Republican running against him ? "
Because while getting even with Manchin , boycotting him, not voting for him if you are able to do so, because it is in some childish way satisfying to you emotionally, doesn't the Bernie Rule rule (go out and for Hillary, anyway, please) apply ?
So wasn't not voting for Clinton, or to not vote at all the same as voting for Trump, as it turned out, right ?
So why are being so snarky to me and such a ideologue, in general, for my reminding people of the lesson that only the over emotional did not learn and/or do not seem to remember, right now ?
But, sure, I realize, it by too soon after your emotional upset for me to be myself and to be practical, so perhaps I should only be allowed say that my thoughts and prayers are with at time of blinding and overwhelm lost.
Sure, it is wrong for me to not to respect your emotional response. your loss by so coldly being practical by talking about how to stop loosing and win for a change.
Silly me for being like that instead being what, a truly righteous person, so just like you, feeling only what you feel, even as you are still behaving ike a looser, wallowing in the injustice of your martyrdom , perhaps.
Get real !!!
Last edited by Geezess, 10/8/2018, 6:30 pm
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10/8/2018, 6:02 pm
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katie5445
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
quote: Geezess wrote:
How bad is the Republican running against him ?
Liberals need to stop being politically emotional and get smart. We need to play the game from the kick off to final whistle to end all of Trump's winning.
Knowing that Collins was voting for Kavanaugh, so Pense would cast the vote to appoint Kavannay, is the very best that could happen, being angry with him is like someone who manipulatively stops talking to you at all, because they think you do not understand how they feel, or ever listen to them.
So, besides it being an emotional thing, why is him casting a symbolic vote for YOUR side, so important to some people, who are being just as tribal and dumb about it as Trump's "super elites", given that what he did might help him keep the seat and vote with the Dem. Party when it does has a majority and so a chance to win ?
Relative to a profile in courage, I'd give him points for playing smart effective politics even at risk of pissing off the overly emotional, but clearly ineffectual, element, of his "tribe", the expected core support.
"Emotional" one nothing wrong with emotion, some could use more! Two, I checked out the candidate Manchin is running against and he is 100% a Trump man. I support the democratic platform it is why I am a democrat. I do not support all dems in politics however.
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10/8/2018, 7:13 pm
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Geezess
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
quote: katie5445 wrote:
quote: Geezess wrote:
How bad is the Republican running against him ?
Liberals need to stop being politically emotional and get smart. We need to play the game from the kick off to final whistle to end all of Trump's winning.
Knowing that Collins was voting for Kavanaugh, so Pense would cast the vote to appoint Kavannay, is the very best that could happen, being angry with him is like someone who manipulatively stops talking to you at all, because they think you do not understand how they feel, or ever listen to them.
So, besides it being an emotional thing, why is him casting a symbolic vote for YOUR side, so important to some people, who are being just as tribal and dumb about it as Trump's "super elites", given that what he did might help him keep the seat and vote with the Dem. Party when it does has a majority and so a chance to win ?
Relative to a profile in courage, I'd give him points for playing smart effective politics even at risk of pissing off the overly emotional, but clearly ineffectual, element, of his "tribe", the expected core support.
"Emotional" one nothing wrong with emotion, some could use more! Two, I checked out the candidate Manchin is running against and he is 100% a Trump man. I support the democratic platform it is why I am a democrat. I do not support all dems in politics however.
"Emotional" one nothing wrong with emotion, some could use more! "... should emotion pay a part in piratical legislative politics ?
Then if A : some could use more emotion, B: aren't you just saying that some people should be more emotional ?
If not that, what is point, what are trying to teach me ?
and , If some people should be more emotional, IYO, should some other people also be less so, too, too, or not and if not why not ? ?
2) as 'the candidate Manchin is running against and he is 100% a Trump man' then how is not voting for Manchin, or not voting at all, not being collaborators with Trump and so with the alt-right agenda ?
Last edited by Geezess, 10/8/2018, 9:56 pm
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10/8/2018, 9:52 pm
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katie5445
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
How bad is it, well if you support Trump policies 100 percent he is your man, I dony, no emotion, fact and you really have the cheek to claim democrats emotions when there is The Donald, the judge, FOX news and Trump devotees, seriously?
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10/9/2018, 1:05 am
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mmmjvpssm
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
He is a total disgrace
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10/9/2018, 8:13 pm
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katie5445
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Re: Manchin faces firestorm at home following Kavanaugh vote
Nice to see you here again 3M, post more often!
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10/11/2018, 1:44 am
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