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katie5445 Profile
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Re: Senate vote


No I don't compared to say dozens of other countries who actually do live under authoritarian dictatorships. I don't like the electoral system, good choice in 1789 bad choice a hundred years later. Yes it is determined by the state you live in that is why state rights are relevant and important. In Oregon one would look at how it is unfair to republicans as Oregonian republicans do. Governor and admin, democrat, both senators, democrats and only one republican congressperson was elected. From the time we enter school till we finish high school it is imprinted on the brain, probably like most countries, we are the best. I thought so myself till the first time I moved to the UK and watched the election between Major and Blair and got a real handle on how your system worked, then I went, oh !@#$.
11/10/2018, 7:50 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Senate vote


I seem, in your opinion at least, to be dining rather well of late but please at least do me the courtesy of revealing my error.

Do you really suppose a system in which the result of an election has no relation to the number of votes cast is in any way "democratic"?
Or that a system which representation in one area is at ten times the rate of that in another area is "democratic"?

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11/10/2018, 7:52 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Senate vote


quote:

mais oui wrote:

I seem, in your opinion at least, to be dining rather well of late but please at least do me the courtesy of revealing my error.

Do you really suppose a system in which the result of an election has no relation to the number of votes cast is in any way "democratic"?
Or that a system which representation in one area is at ten times the rate of that in another area is "democratic"?



Doesn't sound very democratic. Sounds more like a system where a relatively small number of stupid people can have too much influence over who winds up in the government.
11/10/2018, 8:00 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Senate vote


It doesnt sound democratic because it isnt democratic!

Imagine if the rule was people who own a farm get two votes (or ten votes to make it closer to thy actuality) or peopel who live in apartments only get half a vote.

Back in the bad old days here (that Crogin was going to tell me about and then backed out) you only got a vote here if you were a property owner, if you lived in a rented house you got no vote but if you owned a business you got several votes this was patently unfair (although perhaps not in the way in which Crogin was going to tell me) because it meant that government tended to represent the interests of one small section of society over every one elses interests, well isnt the current Senate electoral system similar in that it results in a senate that tends to represent one small section of society (rural dwellers)?

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11/10/2018, 8:10 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Senate vote


There's an easy solution to the problem. Just get rid of the Senate. We don't need two legislative bodies to do the work of one.
11/11/2018, 1:24 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Senate vote


Most countries have a two house system - it has a lot to commend it.

In ours since the second chamber is unelected they are freed from the need of having to make popular decisions if they want to keep their job, as as they are un paid* it means that it isnt prohibitively expensive.

The HoL have time after time made our lower house reconsider decisions which were just plain bad

*although un paid they do get an attendance allowance for every occasion they attend the house - currently £305 per day

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11/11/2018, 2:05 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Senate vote


Maybe we need something similar to the House of Lords in England. Not lords but academics. A house of low paid appointed part time professors and scholars perhaps who can warn and oppose the House of Representatives when they come up with bad legislation.
11/11/2018, 4:16 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Senate vote


quote:

Not lords but academics



Does it really matter what you call them?

the HoL includes 26 bishops (we unlike the US are a constitutionally Christian country )
A large number of retired politicians
and those from all walks of life, academics, actors, athletes, bankers,broadcasters, business men, farmers, industrialists, journalists, lawyers, police officers, surgeons, tribal chiefs, writers .



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11/11/2018, 5:12 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Yobbo Profile
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Re: Senate vote


New Zealand is a tiny country with a tiny population. We (I have adopted NZ as my home till I die) don't have a second house and don't feel the lack.

Mais Oui is right about the US's non-democratic makeup. The founding fathers wanted the nation to continue its existence as it was nearly 300 years ago and they didn't have a magic window to tell them how society has changed while their political system remains locked in the 18th century. The attitudes of the FFs was essentially locked into the institution of slavery (which rather indicated their attitudes to democracy) and government by hoi aristoi with hoi polloi not getting a say. This latter survives to this day.
11/11/2018, 6:10 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: Senate vote


Found on Wiki (usual caveats)

quote:

The Founding Fathers of the United States favoured a bicameral legislature. The idea was to have the Senate be wealthier and wiser. Benjamin Rush saw this though, and noted that "this type of dominion is almost always connected with opulence". The Senate was created to be a stabilising force, elected not by mass electors, but selected by the State legislators. Senators would be more knowledgeable and more deliberate—a sort of republican nobility—and a counter to what Madison saw as the "fickleness and passion" that could absorb the House.

snip

State legislators chose the Senate, and senators had to possess significant property to be deemed worthy and sensible enough for the position.


In 1913, the 17th Amendment passed, which mandated choosing Senators by popular vote rather than State legislatures




So, basically they did away with the purpose of the senate whilst retaining the senate!

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HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
11/11/2018, 6:41 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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