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Philer Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


quote:

she wasnt pregnant had hence had no actual miscarriage - but she believed that she had been and had lost the pregnancy-mais



She wasn't actually pregnant at the time? Interesting. That's apparently not what the defendant told their daughter. Was he lying to her about that?

quote:

His 14-year-old daughter is another matter. She’s old enough to know what suicide is. “Kids were saying things to her at school,” Tom says. “She asked me, ‘Why would Mom do this?’ I told her, ‘I don’t have that answer. I’ll never have that answer.’ But I explained that her mom had a miscarriage, and that I thought for whatever reason, Mom was needed in heaven to care for that baby and that I’m here to care for you guys.”

12/23/2018, 12:58 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


from what I have read she had undergone tubal ligation and her pregnancy was either a figment of her mind or a phantom

people tell lies to children to make them feel better all the time - adults just tell lies to themselves for the same purpose


from my link -

This was the third time in the past nine months Ashley had believed she was pregnant, despite the fact that she had taken her mother’s advice and undergone a tubal ligation after giving birth to their son three years earlier. Tom didn’t understand what was going on medically—he’d begged his wife to see a doctor, to no avail—but he knew Ashley believed she was miscarrying. He knew she felt responsible. And he knew she had stopped taking her mood stabilizers—clonazepam, quetiapine, and amphetamine to treat anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and bipolar tendencies—for fear of hurting the fetus. She was fragile. Teary-eyed, she told Tom she wished she hadn’t listened to her mom, that she wanted more children.


either way real or imagined as far as she was concerned she had a miscarriage which she was struggling to deal with so her killing herself on the anniversary seems entirely plausible.

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12/23/2018, 1:21 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


It's one thing to tell a younger child something you know isn't true to placate them but a 14-year-old girl is old enough to be told the truth if her mother was seriously ill, suicidal and not really pregnant.

There's another thing to consider. Even if she was suicidal why in the world would a caring husband allow her to have access to a gun? Either her own gun or access to his. In this case it was supposedly her own gun that she used.

What I want to know is how that blood got on him? The idea that he would run into the room and grab her up after she shot herself and then get blood all over his shirt doesn't make a lot of sense, if any. If someone is in another room, hears a gun shot and then discovers their spouse has shot herself in the head the thing to do is immediately call 911 and not move the person at all. At least that would be the thing to do if you were trying to save them.

He also should not have had any gunfire residue on his hands if he was in another room when she shot herself. The fact that he had less on his hands than she did can be explained by her hands being near her head when she was shot and him washing his own hands after firing the gun.

The evidence in this case doesn't appear to indicate that she committed suicide.
12/23/2018, 3:39 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


I didn't bother, according to Philer 12 jurists are always stupid and hate women
12/23/2018, 10:24 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What a surprise!


quote:

a 14-year-old girl is old enough to be told the truth if her mother was seriously ill, suicidal and not really pregnant.




IN YOUR OPINION - others may differ


 
quote:

if she was suicidal why in the world would a caring husband allow her to have access to a gun?



because its America, had she been denied access to a gun then others (such as you) would have criticised her being denied the ability to defend herself - BTW it was HER GUN


quote:

The idea that he would run into the room and grab her up after she shot herself and then get blood all over his shirt doesn't make a lot of sense,



Odd because that makes a lot of sense to me - that some one encountering his dying wife would want to cradle her in his arms whilst she died.
He DID phone EMS whilst he cradled her - there is a tape of the call

your description of him 'being in another room' isnt particularly accurate either



Tom heard her chamber a round. Tom looked out from the closet door in time to see a puff of smoke. He didn’t even register the sound of the gun firing.

It took about two seconds for him to get to her. She had fallen between their bed, the bedside table, and a stand-alone jewelry chest. Her gun, which she’d grabbed from her purse on the bed or from the nightstand, was resting near her torso. He grabbed her head. She was still breathing. He lunged for the landline on the nightstand. When the 911 dispatcher picked up, Tom begged for help and then dropped the phone so he could stem the bleeding. He thought the call had disconnected, but the operator remained on the line. She could hear Tom pleading with his wife.




As for the gun shot residue it could easily have transferred from either the gun itself or her hands


Philer as usual you are being very selctive as to which FACTS you are prepared to accept into evidence - no mention of her mental problems, no mention of the repeated 'miscarriages' no mention of her drug use



Last edited by mais oui, 12/23/2018, 11:17 am


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12/23/2018, 11:17 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
msdulittle Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


Ashley had believed she was pregnant, despite the fact that she had taken her mother’s advice and undergone a tubal ligation after giving birth to their son three years earlier.

Are you aware a tubal ligation can reverse itself naturally? Not often but possible.

https://parenting.firstcry.com/articles/pregnancy-after-tubal-ligation/

Reasons of Tubal Ligation Failure

The following are the probable causes of tubal ligation failure:

    Improper sealing off of fallopian tubes during tubal ligation
    Technical mistakes caused during the surgery
    Incorrect identification of fallopian tubes and knotting another anatomical part in their place
    Recanalization – the regeneration of fallopian tubes when they are improperly closed
    Luteal phase pregnancy where pregnancy remains unobserved before tubal ligation surgery
    Using the wrong device for the occlusion process
    Tuboperitoneal fistula due to inadequate healing of the fallopian tubes
12/23/2018, 3:43 pm Link to this post PM msdulittle Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Are you aware a tubal ligation can reverse itself naturally? Not often but possible.



Yes but either way its not important.

whether she was actually pregnant or whether she earnestly believed she was pregnant makes no difference to her mental state- neither does it make a difference if she was actually miscarrying or earnestly believed she was miscarrying - it is what she believed which is important.

judging by the medication she was prescribed this woman had some pretty serious mental health problems - her cannabis use might not have helped either - the fact that she repeatedly believed she was pregnant and repeatedly lost her child might well have been enough to push her over the edge - it certainly strengthens the case that she killed herself (on the anniversary of one of the miscarriages).

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HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
12/23/2018, 3:52 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

I didn't bother, according to Philer 12 jurists are always stupid and hate women



Not always. The Casey Anthony jury wasn't nor did they hate Casey. However, much of the public at large did, which largely represents the jury pool. So much so that Casey Anthony, unlike O. J. Simpson, had to go into hiding.

There have also been some stupid juries who have favored female defendants but they are uncommon compared to the stupid ones who favor men.
12/23/2018, 6:44 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


quote:

because its America, had she been denied access to a gun then others (such as you) would have criticised her being denied the ability to defend herself - BTW it was HER GUN-mais



If someone was clearly depressed and suicidal there is no way I would want them to have a gun unless I wanted them to commit suicide. I don't buy the notion that she was suicidal.

But if she was, there is no way her husband should have allowed her to have access to a gun, even if he had to hide it from her. Or he could have simply altered it so it wouildn't work.

A person who is concerned about his suicidal wife is not going to allow them to have a working gun. So, in this case at a minimum he was negligent if her being suicidal is a true fact.

quote:

Odd because that makes a lot of sense to me - that some one encountering his dying wife would want to cradle her in his arms whilst she died.



It makes sense that a supposedly well-trained cop would move someone who has been shot when moving them could result in killing them? Someone whom they supposedly love?

quote:

He DID phone EMS whilst he cradled her - there is a tape of the call



Sure he did. What else was he going to do? He couldn't refrain from calling if he wanted to put across that suicide scenario.

quote:

Philer as usual you are being very selctive as to which FACTS you are prepared to accept into evidence - no mention of her mental problems, no mention of the repeated 'miscarriages' no mention of her drug use



All of which if true should have resulted in her not having a working gun. The notion that someone who is suicidal would be allowed to have a working gun by someone who loves them and wants to protect them is ludicrous. And he was a cop besides who presumably knows about the role that guns often play in suicides.

This case was initially bungled by the police who apparently were all too willing to accept his explanation of what happened. Why didn't they give him a polygraph test during their questioning? That would have made sense since his claims about what happened were so pertinent to the case.

And then of course along came another brilliant jury who also were quick to believe him.

Last edited by Philer, 12/23/2018, 7:16 pm
12/23/2018, 7:14 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: What a surprise!


you seem to be of the opinion that it was her husbands place to disarm her - yet I can easily imagine what you would say if he had disarmed her - and it wouldnt be supportive

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12/23/2018, 7:59 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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