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John1959
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
Getting back to the original point of this thread, this business of holding on to and praising the Confederacy.
Reverence for Confederacy has no place in modern Mississippi
By Katherine Klein Guest columnist Apr 7, 2017
For the second year in a row, Gov. Phil Bryant declared April “Confederate Heritage Month.”
According to this declaration:
"WHEREAS, it is important for all Americans to reflect upon our nation's past, to gain insight from our mistakes and successes, and to come to a full understanding that the lessons learned yesterday and today will carry us through tomorrow if we carefully and earnestly strive to understand and appreciate our heritage and our opportunities which lie before us."
Although Bryant has signed declarations such as this before, as have several Mississippi governors before him, he should have done the right thing and departed from this tradition.
Appreciating the diversity of Southern culture is perfectly acceptable. Celebrating Southern ancestry is also welcomed. But to “appreciate our heritage” when the “heritage” of the Confederacy is cut-and-dry unacceptable.
The Confederacy existed during a five-year span of time, from 1861 to 1865, some of the bleakest years in American history. Celebrating Confederate Heritage Month is a slap in the face to modern-day Mississippians, who may rightly not want their Southern roots conflated with an appreciation for the Confederacy.
The Confederacy, and its lasting legacies including the Confederate battle flag still incorporated into the current Mississippi state flag, must be viewed through a modern-day lens. Such historical emblems of the past do not exist in a vacuum but rather are shaped by societal perceptions. Consider the swastika, which was originally an ancient East and Southeast Asian symbol for good fortune. This symbol was appropriated by the Nazis and is now associated with the Nazi party and the Holocaust. It would be absurd to argue that reasonably minded modern-day Americans see the swastika as anything other than a symbol of Nazi hate, losing its symbolic meaning of peace.
It is important to be clear about what the Confederacy was, and was not. The Confederacy was not a shining Camelot of righteousness that has somehow been misconstrued by history. The Confederacy was a coalition of Southern states that did not want the status quo to change; that did not want Black people in the South to be free. Those who would argue that the Confederacy was by and large about states’ rights have their argument undone by the second sentence of Mississippi’s Declaration of Secession, which reads:
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world."
Today, the Confederacy is properly understood as an institution that fought for the right to continue the degradation of human beings. In the 150 years following the end of the Confederacy, the Confederate flag has been appropriated by White supremacists, perpetuating it as a symbol of hate.
I am not arguing that we ignore the history of the Confederacy or the Civil War. Quite the opposite. That the Confederacy sought to maintain the institution of slavery should be well-taught in Mississippi classrooms and acknowledged in Southern society in general, as should the decades of racial violence and oppression that have followed. If we are to tell the story, we should tell the complete story of ‘our’ history.
We should, as Gov. Bryant’s proclamation declares in part, seek to gain insight from the mistakes of our ancestors. However, it is simply morally wrong to glorify a heritage that would not have recognized 38% of Mississippi’s current population as human beings. If we want to move forward, the Confederate heritage needs to be acknowledged for what it was: a time in Southern history that no longer represents what modern-day Mississippi stands for.
Katherine Klein is the Equality Advocacy Coordinator for the ACLU of Mississippi. Learn more about the We Are All Mississippi campaign at www.aclu-ms.org.
http://www.meridianstar.com/opinion/columns/reverence-for-confederacy-has-no-place-in-modern-mississippi/article_1f91c23a-49c4-5e58-8a44-2fe716056e20.html
--- “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
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4/13/2017, 4:05 pm
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Geezess
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
Gohawk, re: "A former member of this hoard once said that Rigby said the things he did only as method of being the ultimate devil's advocate. I would go one step further and say that he does so only so he can yank people's chains. And his responses to this thread tends to reinforce that."'
A guy I know told me you liberals hate authoritarianism like the devil hates holy water because it was most likely dealing with establishment authoritarians and the evil that comes out of their oblivious acceptance of the status quo (especially among you people exposed at a tender age to the coverage of the civil rights movement in your living rooms on TV, then dealing with being drafted to fight and die in Vietnam) is what caused you to first question authority, so to become liberal.
On the other hand, authoritarians both accept the establishment status quo unquestioningly
and think doing anything otherwise not only makes one an enemy of the State, of all that they know and blindly hold dear, the enemies of their beloved establishment and their entitlements (my country, right or wrong) but naturally, they also hate the very notion of questioning authority, in anyway, and critically, take doing so, questioning authority as a personal affront to their own unthinking authoritarianism, which they feeling is just being normal and how everyone must be.
So who, liberals or authoritarians are from Venus and who is from Mars ?
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4/13/2017, 4:48 pm
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Geezess
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
"This symbol was appropriated by the Nazis and is now associated with the Nazi party and the Holocaust. It would be absurd to argue that reasonably minded modern-day Americans see the swastika as anything other than a symbol of Nazi hate, losing its symbolic meaning of peace."
BUT the Battle Flag of the Confederacy has only ever been "identified with the institution of slavery– " as stated in the second sentence of Mississippi’s Declaration of Secession.
Any questions ?
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4/13/2017, 5:13 pm
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mais oui
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
It would be absurd to argue that reasonably minded modern-day Americans see the swastika as anything other than a symbol of Nazi hate, losing its symbolic meaning of peace."
a while back whilst visiting the Queens Scottish residence - she as not in but kindly allowed me to park my RV overnight in her driveway - I noticed that the war memorial there for those workers on the estate who lost their lives in WWI was decorated with swastikas
Last edited by mais oui, 4/13/2017, 5:53 pm
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4/13/2017, 5:51 pm
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Geezess
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
Note that many are reversed.
That is typical of Jainism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_symbols
Jump to Swastika -
The swastika is an important Jain symbol. The four arms of the swastika symbolize the four states of existence as per Jainism.
It, or nearly, the Fylfot, Fyrfoshas has a Norse meaning, too.
"a button containing the swastika logo used by eimskip a shipping company in iceland that used the swastika as its logo before the nazis did"
But not only has Eimskip has the class to change it but they have scubbed the net, too.
But not just after the war given I've seen
it on ships in my lifetime.
Southerners should do the same, but not the Jain.
Last edited by Geezess, 4/13/2017, 7:50 pm
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4/13/2017, 6:20 pm
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Geezess
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
I had to search hard for that image, in doing so I came across this interesting site:
How Germany's Ban of the Nazi Swastika Echoes in the Battle Over the Confederate Flag
Newsday ^ | June 24, 2015 | Ishaan Thardoor
Article link:
In Germany "Far-right and even neo-Nazi groups exist and organize in the country, but raising the Nazi swastika is a red line that no one can cross.
Instead, at times, some European fringe groups have come up with another symbol to represent their hateful creed: the Confederate flag."
The discussion group where I found it:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3303858/posts
Last edited by Geezess, 4/13/2017, 8:01 pm
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4/13/2017, 7:37 pm
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John1959
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
Thanks for the interesting link, Geezess.
As it says...
Never will you find a serious German politician, let alone one contending for the leadership of the country, insisting in 2015 that the Nazi swastika is "part of who we are." Nor would you be able to stock up on kitsch, "nostalgic" Nazi memorabilia.
--- “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
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4/13/2017, 8:41 pm
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John1959
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
In Germany, the Confederate flag is not void of political context. European skinheads and neo-Nazi groups have adopted the Confederate flag and variations of it because of its historical context as a symbol of racism and white supremacy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-is-the-confederate-flag-flown-outside-the-us-2015-6
--- “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
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4/13/2017, 11:37 pm
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Geezess
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
quote: John1959 wrote:
Thanks for the interesting link, Geezess.
As it says...
Never will you find a serious German politician, let alone one contending for the leadership of the country, insisting in 2015 that the Nazi swastika is "part of who we are." Nor would you be able to stock up on kitsch, "nostalgic" Nazi memorabilia.
Meanwhile
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4/13/2017, 11:56 pm
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John1959
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Re: The stupidity of the Confederate heritage
--- “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
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4/14/2017, 5:06 pm
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