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Re: baby to be allowed to die


When under anesthetic when no pain can be felt, the body will still react because there are direct nervous system responses that do not at all involve feeling pain. There are response systems in the spinal cord, for example.

It is impossible to prove the child feels pain, and it is impossible to prove US doctors are lying.
4/14/2017, 2:52 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


  since only a handful of babies have this rare condition. I am sure the medical community would like to experiment on this baby to learn more. Personally, I would never put my child through that. I have to wonder about the Dr's. who talked these parents into using their baby as a human guinea pig.

 it seems clear that the parents are hoping for a miracle and have put all their faith in these same doctors.

so, i don't think the parents are being selfish, rather i see the Dr's being selfish.

 i think the parents are desperate and not able to see the forest from the tree's.
4/14/2017, 5:41 am Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

since only a handful of babies have this rare condition. I am sure the medical community would like to experiment on this baby to learn more. Personally, I would never put my child through that. I have to wonder about the Dr's. who talked these parents into using their baby as a human guinea pig.




If they had talked the parents into letting them use the child as a research study then that would have been bad enough but what the doctors are offering is 'treatment' and they would charge very significant sums for this treatment even though all the doctors here say that the condition is incurable and irreversible.


quote:

When under anesthetic when no pain can be felt, the body will still react because there are direct nervous system



what reaction are you talking about

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4/14/2017, 9:36 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

mais oui wrote:
...

quote:

When under anesthetic when no pain can be felt, the body will still react because there are direct nervous system



what reaction are you talking about



Any reaction, such as hitting below the knee cap with a rubber hammer.
It is reflex, and does not in any way indicate consciousness to pain, which can ONLY happen in the brain.

4/15/2017, 3:43 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


Allowing abortion rights is one thing, but to deliberately kill an infant against the wished of the parents, is no different than the Holocaust.

That is especially true since the ones who want to kill the baby are obviously lying.
If there really were brain damage, then the baby could not be in pain no matter what they did.
And there is no evidence at all the US proposed procedures would involve any pain.
What they propose is essentially genetic modification experiment know as gene therapy.
It is relatively painless.

{...
Gene therapy is the therapeutic delivery of nucleic acid polymers into a patient's cells as a drug to treat disease.[1] The first attempt at modifying human DNA was performed in 1980 by Martin Cline, but the first successful nuclear gene transfer in humans, approved by the National Institutes of Health, was performed in May 1989.[2] The first therapeutic use of gene transfer as well as the first direct insertion of human DNA into the nuclear genome was performed by French Anderson in a trial starting in September 1990.

Between 1989 and February 2016, over 2,300 clinical trials had been conducted, more than half of them in phase I.[3]

It should be noted that not all medical procedures that introduce alterations to a patient's genetic makeup can be considered gene therapy. Bone marrow transplantation and organ transplants in general have been found to introduce foreign DNA into patients.[4] Gene therapy is defined by the precision of the procedure and the intention of direct therapeutic effects.

Gene therapy was conceptualized in 1972, by authors who urged caution before commencing human gene therapy studies.

The first attempt, an unsuccessful one, at gene therapy (as well as the first case of medical transfer of foreign genes into humans not counting organ transplantation) was performed by Martin Cline on 10 July 1980.[5][6] Cline claimed that one of the genes in his patients was active six months later, though he never published this data or had it verified[7] and even if he is correct, it's unlikely it produced any significant beneficial effects treating beta-thalassemia.

After extensive research on animals throughout the 1980s and a 1989 bacterial gene tagging trial on humans, the first gene therapy widely accepted as a success was demonstrated in a trial that started on 14 September 1990, when Ashi DeSilva was treated for ADA-SCID.[8]

The first somatic treatment that produced a permanent genetic change was performed in 1993.[9]

This procedure was referred to sensationally and somewhat inaccurately in the media as a "three parent baby", though mtDNA is not the primary human genome and has little effect on an organism's individual characteristics beyond powering their cells.

Gene therapy is a way to fix a genetic problem at its source. The polymers are either translated into proteins, interfere with target gene expression, or possibly correct genetic mutations.

The most common form uses DNA that encodes a functional, therapeutic gene to replace a mutated gene. The polymer molecule is packaged within a "vector", which carries the molecule inside cells.

Early clinical failures led to dismissals of gene therapy. Clinical successes since 2006 regained researchers' attention, although as of 2014, it was still largely an experimental technique.[10] These include treatment of retinal diseases Leber's congenital amaurosis[11][12][13][14] and choroideremia,[15] X-linked SCID,[16] ADA-SCID,[17][18] adrenoleukodystrophy,[19] chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL),[20] acute lymphocytic leukemia (ALL),[21] multiple myeloma,[22] haemophilia[18] and Parkinson's disease.[23] Between 2013 and April 2014, US companies invested over $600 million in the field.[24]

The first commercial gene therapy, Gendicine, was approved in China in 2003 for the treatment of certain cancers.[25] In 2011 Neovasculgen was registered in Russia as the first-in-class gene-therapy drug for treatment of peripheral artery disease, including critical limb ischemia.[26] In 2012 Glybera, a treatment for a rare inherited disorder, became the first treatment to be approved for clinical use in either Europe or the United States after its endorsement by the European Commission.[10][27]
...
Following early advances in genetic engineering of bacteria, cells, and small animals, scientists started considering how to apply it to medicine. Two main approaches were considered – replacing or disrupting defective genes.[28] Scientists focused on diseases caused by single-gene defects, such as cystic fibrosis, haemophilia, muscular dystrophy, thalassemia and sickle cell anemia. Glybera treats one such disease, caused by a defect in lipoprotein lipase.[27]

DNA must be administered, reach the damaged cells, enter the cell and either express or disrupt a protein.[29] Multiple delivery techniques have been explored. The initial approach incorporated DNA into an engineered virus to deliver the DNA into a chromosome.[30][31] Naked DNA approaches have also been explored, especially in the context of vaccine development.[32]

Generally, efforts focused on administering a gene that causes a needed protein to be expressed. More recently, increased understanding of nuclease function has led to more direct DNA editing, using techniques such as zinc finger nucleases and CRISPR. The vector incorporates genes into chromosomes. The expressed nucleases then knock out and replace genes in the chromosome. As of 2014 these approaches involve removing cells from patients, editing a chromosome and returning the transformed cells to patients.[33]

Gene editing is a potential approach to alter the human genome to treat genetic diseases,[34] viral diseases,[35] and cancer.[36] As of 2016 these approaches were still years from being medicine.[37][38]
...}
4/15/2017, 3:49 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

Allowing abortion rights is one thing, but to deliberately kill an infant against the wished of the parents, is no different than the Holocaust



Sorry did I miss something?
I havent read of any one being "deliberately killed"

I dodnt know what any of the rest of your post is about but is seems completely irrelevant

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4/15/2017, 8:45 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

Allowing abortion rights is one thing, but to deliberately kill an infant against the wished of the parents, is no different than the Holocaust



Sorry did I miss something?
I havent read of any one being "deliberately killed"

I dodnt know what any of the rest of your post is about but is seems completely irrelevant




Preventing treatment is do kill the infant.
Ahd by withholding treatment, the death is ensured to be as slow and painful as possible.

The rest of the previous post was explaining the painless gene therapy the US doctors want to try.
4/15/2017, 4:14 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:
That is especially true since the ones who want to kill the baby are obviously lying.
If there really were brain damage, then the baby could not be in pain no matter what they did.



Here we go again. Any expert not claiming the same thing as Rigby must be a liar.

Humans can have brain damage and still feel pain. Your statement couldn't be more wrong.

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4/15/2017, 4:27 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

Preventing treatment is do kill the infant.
Ahd by withholding treatment, the death is ensured to be as slow and painful as possible



there is no treatment, there is nothing than can be done to improve this childs condition the child is being tube fed and artificially oxgenated which is keeping it nominally alive but not suffering free.


quote:

The rest of the previous post was explaining the painless gene therapy the US doctors want to try.



except that none of it related to this condition and the final line was possible the only part worth reading

As of 2016 these approaches were still years from being medicine

As I said the American doctors are not asking to use the child as a experimental subject they are charging a great deal of money for "treatment" which has no proven value




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4/15/2017, 5:24 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: baby to be allowed to die


quote:

John1959 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:
That is especially true since the ones who want to kill the baby are obviously lying.
If there really were brain damage, then the baby could not be in pain no matter what they did.



Here we go again. Any expert not claiming the same thing as Rigby must be a liar.

Humans can have brain damage and still feel pain. Your statement couldn't be more wrong.




That is a lie.
Obviously the US doctors and British witness in this case disagree to the point one of them is lying.
It can be fairly easily shown that the US doctors are telling the truth, that this sort of condition has been easily cured many times before. Whether or not it is too late now is a secondary decision that does not have to be guessed at. You would know for sure after the procedure.
But in no way is my opinion involved.
The US doctors are quite clear.
4/15/2017, 6:13 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 


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