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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

Are you not reading, I said it is not how Islam is practiced faithfully, it is a made up deal by men, like most control over women was and is. This is one thing you will not or never be an expert on, unless you are a female and in particular, one who has lived it.



No, this thread is about a religious female doctor being threatened with 50 year sentence over lies.
The odds she was guilty of actual female genital mutilation is EXTREMELY low.
It is almost for certain this is case of extreme racism, bigotry, and an attempted hate crime against this innocent doctor.
4/21/2017, 7:50 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


The study area had a female circumcision prevalence of nearly 99 percent. Of these, 80 percent were Pharaonic circumcisions - the oldest historically and the most severe form which the practice takes in the Sudan. In Pharaonic circumcisions, as performed by traditional midwives, the entire clitoris is removed from the base, the labia minora are grasped with the hand and cut off, the inside edges of the labia majora are excised, and then the two sides of the wound are brought together and held together by various substances (egg and cigarette papers in the Eastern Sudan; thorns used as skewers in the Northern Sudan) until they close and heal, forming a smooth area of epidermis over the outside with a midline scar. The girl's legs are bound together tightly at the ankles, knees, and thighs to prevent her from moving, so that the healing edges of the wound will not be disturbed; the aim is to make the opening into the vagina as small and tight as possible.

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/clitoridectomy-and-infibulation

Sudan is 97% Muslim

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4/21/2017, 7:52 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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 Current estimates (from surveys of women older than 15 years old) indicate that around 90% of female genital mutilation cases include either
Types I (mainly clitoridectomy),
II (excision) or
IV (“nicking” without flesh removed),

about 10% (over 8 million women) are Type III (infibulation). Infibulation, which is the most severe form of FGM, is mostly practiced in the north-eastern region of Africa: Djibouti(90% muslim), Eritrea (48% muslim), Ethiopia (34% muslim), Somalia(99% muslim), and Sudan(97% muslim).

In West-Africa (Guinea(85% muslim) Mali (98 muslim), Burkina Faso (60% muslim), etc.), the tendency is to remove flesh (clitoridectomy and/or excision) without sewing the labia minora and/or majora together.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/

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4/21/2017, 8:03 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


The topic is about how it being done in the West is different, and how it is okay, for vanity.

The fact that those places that you mention did it before they became "Muslim" suggests it is less than honest to connect these ancient heathen practices to Islam.

Is it not much like suggesting Christianity can be judged by snake handling and the Mormon's obsession with underwear ?
4/21/2017, 8:23 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


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The topic is about how it being done in the West is different, and how it is okay, for vanity.



if a woman wants to have it done - for whatever reason I see no problem - its her body but when you start butchering children - for non medical reasons - that is different.


The fact that those places that you mention did it before they became "Muslim" suggests it is less than honest to connect these ancient heathen practices to Islam

Of course its a preIslamic custom but Islam has adopted it (in some countries not all) - just as America adopted the jewish custom of circumcising infant boys, there is no religious imperative and there wasnt a cultural one - but for a long time almost all boys were cut for no reason other than fashion

(although doctors did like the income stream)

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4/21/2017, 8:46 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


So say it clearly.
Do you think all religious circumcision is illegal, or not ?


4/21/2017, 8:49 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


quote:

mais oui wrote:

The study area had a female circumcision prevalence of nearly 99 percent. Of these, 80 percent were Pharaonic circumcisions - the oldest historically and the most severe form which the practice takes in the Sudan. In Pharaonic circumcisions, as performed by traditional midwives, the entire clitoris is removed from the base, the labia minora are grasped with the hand and cut off, the inside edges of the labia majora are excised, and then the two sides of the wound are brought together and held together by various substances (egg and cigarette papers in the Eastern Sudan; thorns used as skewers in the Northern Sudan) until they close and heal, forming a smooth area of epidermis over the outside with a midline scar. The girl's legs are bound together tightly at the ankles, knees, and thighs to prevent her from moving, so that the healing edges of the wound will not be disturbed; the aim is to make the opening into the vagina as small and tight as possible.

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/clitoridectomy-and-infibulation

Sudan is 97% Muslim



African traditions predate Mohammad, and have NOTHING at all to do with Islam.
Anyone saying they do, not only is unfamiliar with Islam, but is clearly being irresponsible and attempting to promote the murder or more innocent Muslims.

Something is not called "Pharaonic" if it is modern or Islamic.

Many tribes in Sudan, like the ashraf, claim descent from Muhammad. It is totally untrue. But claiming to be Muslim gives them greater authority. That does NOT mean they actually ARE Muslim or even know much of anything at all about Islam.
4/21/2017, 10:19 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


quote:

mais oui wrote:

 Current estimates (from surveys of women older than 15 years old) indicate that around 90% of female genital mutilation cases include either
Types I (mainly clitoridectomy),
II (excision) or
IV (“nicking” without flesh removed),

about 10% (over 8 million women) are Type III (infibulation). Infibulation, which is the most severe form of FGM, is mostly practiced in the north-eastern region of Africa: Djibouti(90% muslim), Eritrea (48% muslim), Ethiopia (34% muslim), Somalia(99% muslim), and Sudan(97% muslim).

In West-Africa (Guinea(85% muslim) Mali (98 muslim), Burkina Faso (60% muslim), etc.), the tendency is to remove flesh (clitoridectomy and/or excision) without sewing the labia minora and/or majora together.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/




Total lies and propaganda.
First of all, anyone mentioning African customs when discussing Islam, is just lying.
Second is that this case is about a woman of Indian descent, living in Kentucky.
It has absolutely nothing at all to do with Africa, and anyone using Africa as evidence has to be trying to lie.

Can't you even read?
Look at the wording, "90% of female genital mutilation cases include either
Types I (mainly clitoridectomy),
II (excision) or
IV (“nicking” without flesh removed),..."
The key word is "OR".
So then it is possible that 99.999% of those included in the quoted "90%" are just a "nicked" prepuce.

Anyone with any intelligence would instantly realize that infibulation has to be far rares than claimed. Not only would it prevent pregnancy, but also prevent delivery, so any society that practiced it would die out in a single generation.


Last edited by Rigby5, 4/21/2017, 10:32 pm
4/21/2017, 10:28 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


Again, for those who have failed to keep up with the facts:

{...
Amirul Mumineen Molana Ali ibn Abi Talib AS clearly says that if the khafz is done then it may be done only after the girl reaches the age of seven. Molana Ali AS also says that this procedure is where part of the ‘clitoral hood’, (prepuce), may be removed or slit, so that women would have more pleasure when they are with their husbands (as cited in the Daaim ul-Islam of Syedna al-Qadi al-Nu’man, Part 1 - pg 124).
...}

http://www.fatemidawat.com/news/announcements-overview/syedna-taher-fakhruddin-tus-statement-on-khafz-(khatna-cdh).html
4/21/2017, 10:42 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Here's one that should be interesting,


quote:

Do you think all religious circumcision is illegal, or not ?




well I thought I had!
yes I think all non medically necessary mutilations of minors, circumcisions, FGMs, and even ear piercings should be illegal - they arent not in the US and not in the UK but they should be.

Here we have the frankly outrageous situation where it is illegal for any one - even a veterinary surgeon - to remove the tail of a dog for cosmetic reason but cutting the end off an infants penis for religious reasons is perfectly legal - even if the person doing it isnt a doctor!

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4/21/2017, 11:12 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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