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Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

I calculated how much I have paid into health insurance so far, and it is over half a million dollars.
I never go over the deductible, or was between jobs, so not once have I ever gotten a cent out of health insurance.



Which has absolutely nothing to do with your claim. A fundamental tenet of insurance is

The premiums of the many pay for the losses of the few.

The fact that you haven't made any claims does not mean that the insurance company has some sort of magical bank of your funds just waiting for the day you make a claim. The fact that you haven't made a claim simply means that the insurance company used your premiums to pay for other people's claims. No bank. No magic mutual fund. Just that 3-5% profit margin.




No, almost no one I knows has gotten anything at all out of health insurance. I know several thousand people at least, and one person got open heart surgery. Another person I know needed a pacemaker, but they went back to France and got one for free.
I know a few people who had hip or knee replacements, but those were less then $20k, so were not significant enough to warrant even their own half million in payments, much less the money I and thousands of others have paid in.

There are about 65k heart surgeries every year. That is only 1.6% of the population.
When I go to a hospital, the beds seem all empty. There are no crowds. They don't even have wards any more. The ratio of doctors and nurses to patients seems about 20 to 1.
It seems totally and completely ridiculous.

There is not way around the statistics.
The cost of private insurance is over 3 times greater than public health care, like Medicare. Private health care through insurance is totally and completely unsustainable, while Medicare is actually doing quite well.
5/24/2017, 3:51 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


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shiftless2 wrote:

Not quite - the investment income on those retirement accounts is going to be used to pay benefits to the individuals when they retire. It doesn't constitute income to the insurance company.



It must constitute some income, or else all the mutual fund companies would not be run by insurance companies, that have lots of excess capital to loan out.

Typical payouts for these mutual funds are 2 to 5%, while the insurance companies are making more like 7 to 12% on most of these mutual funds investments.
5/24/2017, 4:04 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


Rigby, reading your posts it's becoming clear that I should never have written all those actuarial exams. Clearly you "know" more about insurance than anyone else. And that includes people that have worked in the insurance industry for 40 years.

The fact that pretty much everything you say on the topic is wrong is besides the point - you "know" it and that's all that counts.
5/24/2017, 10:25 am Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

Not quite - the investment income on those retirement accounts is going to be used to pay benefits to the individuals when they retire. It doesn't constitute income to the insurance company.



Which is similar to repaying investment to stock/share holders in utilities, banks, major investment opportunities. All work essentially the same where a payment is made for a service AVAILED or provided or convenience supported those are in turn initial setup/construction or production paid for thru major $$ invested funds that are repaid to those investors with the payments $ made. Simplification but in essence fact.
5/24/2017, 11:26 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

Not quite - the investment income on those retirement accounts is going to be used to pay benefits to the individuals when they retire. It doesn't constitute income to the insurance company.



Which is similar to repaying investment to stock/share holders in utilities, banks, major investment opportunities. All work essentially the same where a payment is made for a service AVAILED or provided or convenience supported those are in turn initial setup/construction or production paid for thru major $$ invested funds that are repaid to those investors with the payments $ made. Simplification but in essence fact.



No.
5/24/2017, 1:45 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

I calculated how much I have paid into health insurance so far, and it is over half a million dollars.
I never go over the deductible, or was between jobs, so not once have I ever gotten a cent out of health insurance.



Which has absolutely nothing to do with your claim. A fundamental tenet of insurance is

The premiums of the many pay for the losses of the few.

The fact that you haven't made any claims does not mean that the insurance company has some sort of magical bank of your funds just waiting for the day you make a claim. The fact that you haven't made a claim simply means that the insurance company used your premiums to pay for other people's claims. No bank. No magic mutual fund. Just that 3-5% profit margin.




No, almost no one I knows has gotten anything at all out of health insurance. I know several thousand people at least, and one person got open heart surgery. Another person I know needed a pacemaker, but they went back to France and got one for free.
I know a few people who had hip or knee replacements, but those were less then $20k, so were not significant enough to warrant even their own half million in payments, much less the money I and thousands of others have paid in.

There are about 65k heart surgeries every year. That is only 1.6% of the population.
When I go to a hospital, the beds seem all empty. There are no crowds. They don't even have wards any more. The ratio of doctors and nurses to patients seems about 20 to 1.
It seems totally and completely ridiculous.

There is not way around the statistics.
The cost of private insurance is over 3 times greater than public health care, like Medicare. Private health care through insurance is totally and completely unsustainable, while Medicare is actually doing quite well.



I don't know where you got the 65k but in 2016 there were 500,000 open heart surgeries, 2,300 heart transplants, over a 100,000 valve replacements then there are the hundred of thousands of stents, pacemakers, angioplasties, yet only since Obamacare has the figures from the past been reduced, preventative care!
5/24/2017, 5:43 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


By the way we have no more wards because they spread disease. In the UK wards are being constantly closed and patients contaminated and there is no facility that has nurses 20 to 1 patient. Most people gripe they can't get one when needed, most people gripe because nurses don't do what they used to for patients. You also do not get a pacemaker in France for free. My knee replacement cost 60k two years ago, on medicare and with my secondary, I paid $300 out of pocket. Exactly Rigby there is no way around statistics, you might want to check them out sometime.
5/24/2017, 5:49 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


My back surgeries was in one day, home the next. No intention of keeping me longer regardless unless developed a instant infection.
5/24/2017, 9:45 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


Same as my hip surgery, if you do well with bypass surgery you can be out in three days. Sending post op patients home helps prevent infection and people do better at home and we all know why, being an inpatient sucks.
5/24/2017, 9:52 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Global health care study: America's ranking is 'an embarrassment'


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Rigby5 wrote:

... while Medicare is actually doing quite well.



You really have to learn something about the subject. Medicare is way under water.

As I said before the combined funding shortfall for Social Security and Medicare is in the order of $135 Trillion (that is with a "T") while the total value of all real property in the US is in the order of $50 Trillion.

And don't try to argue that things will be okay because of a growing economy. Economic growth is already taken into account when that deficit was calculated.

Speaking from memory, when those programs were originally established there was something like 16 active workers per retiree. Now there are three and that ratio is projected to fall below two in the relatively near future.

The trust funds are completely inadequate and will be exhausted in the relatively near future as well.

5/24/2017, 11:03 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 


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