Kids and guns: https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/t1398 Runboard| Kids and guns: en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 17:41:48 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 17:41:48 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18222,from=rss#post18222https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18222,from=rss#post18222quote:katie5445 wrote: Oh no, you have got the wrong impression, most do think we are imperialistic jerks, especially the well educated who present excellent facts and arguments against the west invasion into the ME/N Africa, they just admit to having it better in the west than who they fled from, especially if you were soon to become a political prisoner or wasn't sure if this day would be your last day. The point being that the greater safety one has from being harmed by the police in the US is not because of rights but privilege, based on things like race. I am sure that when the Roman legions were marching through the whole Mediterranean, lots of people flocked to Rome because it simply was safer, due to privilege, not rights.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:45:14 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18221,from=rss#post18221https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18221,from=rss#post18221quote:Ammunition is easy to buy in Switzerland, and not a single round has to be accounted for. You just have to prove you have a valid firearm permit. Oh dear PLEASE pay attention! I was talking about the guns which every adult swiss male must have, the gun supplied to him by his government (I explained this had you bothered to read). keepers of military guns greatly out number owners of civilian guns quote:Whether or not WE like Saudi Arabian government is irrelevant. The point is they do like it. I agree....except many of them dont like it and the people of Bahrain definately dont like their rulers. the simple fact remains that even if you could get every single gun owner in the US on side they would still be no match for the US army (probably not even a match for the police). But any way historically (and currently) civilian militias are a tool for oppression not freedom nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:43:13 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18212,from=rss#post18212https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18212,from=rss#post18212Oh no, you have got the wrong impression, most do think we are imperialistic jerks, especially the well educated who present excellent facts and arguments against the west invasion into the ME/N Africa, they just admit to having it better in the west than who they fled from, especially if you were soon to become a political prisoner or wasn't sure if this day would be your last day.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:26:45 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18187,from=rss#post18187https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18187,from=rss#post18187quote:katie5445 wrote: I have been told differently from those who have fled, so I think I'm gonna take their word over yours. That is silly. You expect them to explain to you that we are all a bunch of imperialist jerks and that they are trying to follow the money? That is likely to be taken as an insult by them and also make them look bad. But it is also true.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sun, 25 Jun 2017 01:33:40 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18185,from=rss#post18185https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18185,from=rss#post18185I have been told differently from those who have fled, so I think I'm gonna take their word over yours.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sun, 25 Jun 2017 01:29:27 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18179,from=rss#post18179https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18179,from=rss#post18179quote:katie5445 wrote: And that is why millions and millions of Muslims have immigrated from the ME and Africa, India for decades and I don't mean refugees or immigrants from this century, if you speak with them they have some very good reasons for getting out, Iraqi's and Hussein or the Persians and Khomeini, Gaddafi and Libya and so on they typically were educated with a bit of dosch and you see them all over the USA more recognized in larger cities and especially in European cities and towns to villages, owning small and not so small businesses. That is silly. The reason people from the Mideast come to the US is because the Mideast is part of the US colonial empire, and they are just following their money.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:33:04 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18178,from=rss#post18178https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18178,from=rss#post18178quote:katie5445 wrote: All the Warsaw ghetto was a holding place for distribution of 400,000-450,000 Jews to camps, more than half to death camps. I would bet the ghetto would have been preferable. S.A. "somewhat free" is a stretch, especially if you are a certain gender, other than straight, Muslim, male and that can be iffy as there is no freedom in religion, press or any communications and punishments for petty crimes are severe. The point is that with only a few pistols, the Jews in Warsaw held off larger numbers of German soldiers for months. If they had more weapons, they could have held out much longer. And if everyone had weapons and been willing to use them, Germany would quickly have failed. Whether or not WE like Saudi Arabian government is irrelevant. The point is they do like it. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:30:39 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18177,from=rss#post18177https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18177,from=rss#post18177quote:mais oui wrote: quote:I don't know enough about Saudi Arabia, but it seems somewhat free to me it is an autocracy and the personal fiefdom of the Al Saud family quote:chief of state: King and Prime Minister SALMAN bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud cabinet: Council of Ministers appointed by the monarch every 4 years and includes many royal family members elections/appointments: none; the monarchy is hereditary Legislative branch - appointed by monarch Judicial branch appointed by royal decree Political parties and leaders: none (CIA world fact book) "somewhat free?" Can you think of a single case where an armed popular rising was successful (unless they had the backing of the army)? The autocracy in Saudi Arabia is exactly what the people WANT. The government is very popular. Every single free country was created by armed popular uprising, and most do get the backing of the military as well.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:27:17 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18176,from=rss#post18176https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18176,from=rss#post18176quote:mais oui wrote: The death by firearm rate in Switzerland is 0.52 Yes every adult male must by law have a gun in Switzerland - the gun is supplied by the state. any idea about the ammunition situation? OK so i'll tell you, they dont have any! (they used to have 50 rounds but that was stopped in 2013) but even when they had the ammo was supplied by the state and every round had to be accounted for so if you shot someone being caught was almost a certainty. Now, if you want to have to account for every round fired I would certainly approve - but if you would prefer to have all the guns your heart desires but no ammo I would definately vote for that also! BTW Switzerland STILL had a high gun homicide rate by European standards Utter nonsense. Ammunition is easy to buy in Switzerland, and not a single round has to be accounted for. You just have to prove you have a valid firearm permit. {... In order to purchase ammunition the buyer must follow the same legal rules that apply to buying guns. The buyer can only buy ammunition for guns that he/she legally owns and must provide the following information to the seller (Art. 15, 16 WG; Art 24 WV):[2][3] valid official identification or passport (and must be older than 18 and who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and must not be a citizen of the following countries (Art. 12 WV): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania) residence address criminal record copy not older than 3 months weapon acquisition permit not older than 2 years, or a weapon carrying permit not older than 5 years ...}nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 23:24:30 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18165,from=rss#post18165https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18165,from=rss#post18165And that is why millions and millions of Muslims have immigrated from the ME and Africa, India for decades and I don't mean refugees or immigrants from this century, if you speak with them they have some very good reasons for getting out, Iraqi's and Hussein or the Persians and Khomeini, Gaddafi and Libya and so on they typically were educated with a bit of dosch and you see them all over the USA more recognized in larger cities and especially in European cities and towns to villages, owning small and not so small businesses.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 18:46:53 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18164,from=rss#post18164https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18164,from=rss#post18164All the Warsaw ghetto was a holding place for distribution of 400,000-450,000 Jews to camps, more than half to death camps. I would bet the ghetto would have been preferable. S.A. "somewhat free" is a stretch, especially if you are a certain gender, other than straight, Muslim, male and that can be iffy as there is no freedom in religion, press or any communications and punishments for petty crimes are severe.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 18:39:15 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18163,from=rss#post18163https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18163,from=rss#post18163quote:I don't know enough about Saudi Arabia, but it seems somewhat free to me it is an autocracy and the personal fiefdom of the Al Saud family quote:chief of state: King and Prime Minister SALMAN bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud Deputy Prime Minister, and Minister of Defense MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud cabinet: Council of Ministers appointed by the monarch every 4 years and includes many royal family members elections/appointments: none; the monarchy is hereditary Legislative branch - appointed by monarch Judicial branch appointed by royal decree Political parties and leaders: none (CIA world fact book) "somewhat free?" Can you think of a single case where an armed popular rising was successful (unless they had the backing of the army)?nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 18:32:22 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18147,from=rss#post18147https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18147,from=rss#post18147quote:mais oui wrote: quote:you are totally and completely wrong to claim that Jews being armed would have made no difference entire nation states with armies and heavy artillery fell to the German army to believe that aGerman Jews - however well armed could have held out for more than hours or days is delusional No tyrant can exist if the population is armed Yemen is the second most armed country in the world (81 guns per 100 of population) hardly a bastion of democracy Saudi Arabia is 7th most armed country in the world (35 guns per 100 pop) Saddam era Iraq was the 8th most armed people in the world (34 guns per 100 pop) Oman Bahrain and Kuwaite all have about 30 guns per 100 pop (pretty much one for every adult male) these autocratic regimes seem to manage quite well even though the population is well armed - getting an automatic rifle (usually an AK47) is pretty much a rite of passage. If you think that an armed civilian population (however well armed) is a match for the army of any nation state your medication needs adjusted! That is silly. Rarely do the armed forces represent more than a tiny percentage of the over all population. And armed forces often are the enemy, as they are the elite who can be payed off and help to abuse the general population. The tiny Warsaw ghetto enclave held out for 2 months. Yemen is not an example of anything. It is not a monolithic culture, but many diverse and competing groups, many acting as agents for foreign powers. So there is nothing remotely approaching a single population being taken over by a local tyrant. I don't know enough about Saudi Arabia, but it seems somewhat free to me, and clearly the Iraqis under Saddam had the most freedom then. The correlation of arms and freedom is obvious. It is only when outsiders control those arms that there are problems, such as in Somalia, Angola, etc.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 15:53:30 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18140,from=rss#post18140https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18140,from=rss#post18140The death by firearm rate in Switzerland is 0.52 Yes every adult male must by law have a gun in Switzerland - the gun is supplied by the state. any idea about the ammunition situation? OK so i'll tell you, they dont have any! (they used to have 50 rounds but that was stopped in 2013) but even when they had the ammo was supplied by the state and every round had to be accounted for so if you shot someone being caught was almost a certainty. Now, if you want to have to account for every round fired I would certainly approve - but if you would prefer to have all the guns your heart desires but no ammo I would definately vote for that also! BTW Switzerland STILL had a high gun homicide rate by European standards nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 14:47:52 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18134,from=rss#post18134https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18134,from=rss#post18134So if numbers of guns in private hands IS really a problem, explain this: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/editorial/three-million-guns-is-more-than-enough-20130114-2cppg.html The death by firearm rate in Switzerland is 0.52, AU is still low even as now having as many firearms as before the Port Stanley issue and there are still unauthorized or banned weapons estimated to be in quantity never having been relinquished there.nondisclosed_email@example.com (cooter50)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 12:20:47 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18127,from=rss#post18127https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18127,from=rss#post18127quote:you are totally and completely wrong to claim that Jews being armed would have made no difference entire nation states with armies and heavy artillery fell to the German army to believe that aGerman Jews - however well armed could have held out for more than hours or days is delusional No tyrant can exist if the population is armed Yemen is the second most armed country in the world (81 guns per 100 of population) hardly a bastion of democracy Saudi Arabia is 7th most armed country in the world (35 guns per 100 pop) Saddam era Iraq was the 8th most armed people in the world (34 guns per 100 pop) Oman Bahrain and Kuwaite all have about 30 guns per 100 pop (pretty much one for every adult male) these autocratic regimes seem to manage quite well even though the population is well armed - getting an automatic rifle (usually an AK47) is pretty much a rite of passage. If you think that an armed civilian population (however well armed) is a match for the army of any nation state your medication needs adjusted! nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 08:31:26 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18126,from=rss#post18126https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18126,from=rss#post18126quote:mais oui wrote: quote:Except that to prevent any child from ever coming in contact with a gun, you would have to prevent all guns that is untrue, the goal would not be to prevent any child but to minimise the chance of any child coming in contact with guns. Let us compare Massachusetts (a state with child protection laws) with Louisiana a state with none. In one month May 2017 Louisiana had 4 incidents of children with guns. Massachusetts IN THREE YEARS had just ONE was this achieveed by banning guns in Massachusetts quote:What you should have distilled from your high accident rates with every day objects, is that gun accidents are actually quite low and acceptable rates If I fallover whilst getting dressed I get injured, not my child in the next room not the people living in the house across the street me and me alone. secondly although the numbers are high the vast majority of the injuries are fairly trivial they are not fatal and not life changing in the way that gun shot injuries often are. quote:Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. In UK realistically only criminals have guns......and yet our crime rates are not significantly higher than those of the US and our murder rate is very much lower so guns are not preventing crime quote:Never forget. Yes lets never forget that your Post hoc ergo propter hoc argument has serious feet of clay - it is an almost complete nonsense. Firstly you are a victim of Godwins law so de facto you lose! secondly your arguments are based on falsehoods. Hitler was relatively pro-gun. Most of the strict gun control was implemented by the Weimar Republic in direct response to rising street violence and to prevent an armed coup by the Nazis.   The “gun control” law implemented in 1938, when the Nazis were fully in power, actually loosened restrictions on gun ownership. If the “armed populations prevent tyranny” maxim held, the Germans could have removed Hitler from office with relative ease. Even had the Jews been armed to the teeth it would not have prevented them being rounded up by the German army - it would have just resulted in them being shot in the streets Child injuries from firearms are already minimized, so you are not making any sense. Child protection laws can not possibly effect the number of child firearm incidents, and actually is likely to just make things worse. Louisiana is likely to have more gun accidents simply because there is a greater need for gun use, given dangerous animals like snakes. The difference between 1 in 3 years and 4 in 1 years is likely insignificant, compared to random variance. You statement about a dressing accident not harming others is irrelevant, since dressing does not benefit others as firearms do. There also is not a thing wrong with my Post hoc ergo propter hoc argument. Obviously all authoritarian dictators have and always will have depended upon gun control. Godwin's law is irrelevant because it is about comparing someone as being evil, by just calling them Hitler. Here we are discussing HOW Hitler actually succeeded. And your history is interpreted all wrong. Gun control came first in Germany. That is why Hitler at first aligned with the SA, because they were a veterans group with marksman privileges that were immune to gun control legislation. Then only after all the Spartacus League and any opposition, like Zionists and either arrested and killed, did Hitler drop gun control, and murder the SA. And you are totally and completely wrong to claim that Jews being armed would have made no difference. With just a few pistols, Jews forced 2 whole divisions to be recalled from combat in order to deal with the Warsaw uprising. The point was also made by Solzhenitsyn, that if only people had resisted with violence, the people coming to take them away would have been too frightened to do it any more. {... And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria [Government limo] sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If... if... We didn't love freedom enough. And even more — we had no awareness of the real situation. We spent ourselves in one unrestrained outburst in 1917, and then we hurried to submit. We submitted with pleasure! ...} No tyrant can exist if the population is armed. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Sat, 24 Jun 2017 06:10:03 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18110,from=rss#post18110https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18110,from=rss#post18110quote:You really ought to bone up on WWII history. why what have you said which goes beyond what was said before?nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 22:02:50 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18102,from=rss#post18102https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18102,from=rss#post18102He gave the people back some freedoms, he gave them work in the factories albeit building the machines of war he made them great again even as his own egotistical nature shot them in the head in the long run. You really ought to bone up on WWII history.nondisclosed_email@example.com (cooter50)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:10:20 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18062,from=rss#post18062https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18062,from=rss#post18062The “gun control” law implemented in 1938, when the Nazis were fully in power, actually loosened restrictions on gun ownership. If the “armed populations prevent tyranny” maxim held, the Germans could have removed Hitler from office with relative ease. Yes. And let's remember that citizens supported Hitler. They had no desire to remove the guy they thought would make Germany great again.nondisclosed_email@example.com (John1959)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:41:18 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18060,from=rss#post18060https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18060,from=rss#post18060No one is talking about the army the laws relate to CIVILIAN ownership Cooter, which way do you want it? originally you seemed to claim that Hitler DIDNT relax the german gun laws now you seem to be saying that he DID, so which is it? Let me help, The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, and the possession of ammunition. hope that helpsnondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:28:28 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18057,from=rss#post18057https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18057,from=rss#post18057And you must allow context of time IE:1938, as to the arming of Germany to begin the actions by Hitler to recover Sudetenland and the onslaught that followed. You base premise of empty context does not support your connotations.nondisclosed_email@example.com (cooter50)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:14:44 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18055,from=rss#post18055https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18055,from=rss#post18055No, was Stephen Halbrook (a dead link) Stephen Halbrook is an NRA lawyer In 1919 the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that "all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately."[5] Under the regulations, anyone found in possession of a firearm or ammunition was subject to five years' imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 marks. in short a total ban on all guns and all ammunition the 1928 Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm licensing scheme. Under this scheme, Germans could possess firearms, but they were required to have separate permits to do the following: own or sell firearms, carry firearms (including handguns), manufacture firearms, and professionally deal in firearms and ammunition. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "... persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." This law revoked the 1919 Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which had banned all firearms possession. The 1938 German Weapons Act, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. But under the new law: Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, and the possession of ammunition. Now if you can find a way of spininng a complete ban on all guns being reduced down to restrictions only on hand guns constituting increasing restriction lets hear it!nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:26:21 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18053,from=rss#post18053https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18053,from=rss#post18053So Mais Oui you were witness to all the above?? German firearms relinquishment began in 1919, expanded in 1933 and 1938: http://http://stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdfnondisclosed_email@example.com (cooter50)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 11:00:37 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18041,from=rss#post18041https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18041,from=rss#post18041quote:Except that to prevent any child from ever coming in contact with a gun, you would have to prevent all guns that is untrue, the goal would not be to prevent any child but to minimise the chance of any child coming in contact with guns. Let us compare Massachusetts (a state with child protection laws) with Louisiana a state with none. In one month May 2017 Louisiana had 4 incidents of children with guns. Massachusetts IN THREE YEARS had just ONE was this achieveed by banning guns in Massachusetts quote:What you should have distilled from your high accident rates with every day objects, is that gun accidents are actually quite low and acceptable rates If I fallover whilst getting dressed I get injured, not my child in the next room not the people living in the house across the street me and me alone. secondly although the numbers are high the vast majority of the injuries are fairly trivial they are not fatal and not life changing in the way that gun shot injuries often are. quote:Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. In UK realistically only criminals have guns......and yet our crime rates are not significantly higher than those of the US and our murder rate is very much lower so guns are not preventing crime quote:Never forget. Yes lets never forget that your Post hoc ergo propter hoc argument has serious feet of clay - it is an almost complete nonsense. Firstly you are a victim of Godwins law so de facto you lose! secondly your arguments are based on falsehoods. Hitler was relatively pro-gun. Most of the strict gun control was implemented by the Weimar Republic in direct response to rising street violence and to prevent an armed coup by the Nazis.   The “gun control” law implemented in 1938, when the Nazis were fully in power, actually loosened restrictions on gun ownership. If the “armed populations prevent tyranny” maxim held, the Germans could have removed Hitler from office with relative ease. Even had the Jews been armed to the teeth it would not have prevented them being rounded up by the German army - it would have just resulted in them being shot in the streetsnondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:17:53 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18034,from=rss#post18034https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18034,from=rss#post18034quote:Yobbo wrote: quote:katie5445 wrote: quote:Rigby5 wrote: quote:Yobbo wrote: Sure it is acceptable. A kid killing a friend is just one of those things, eh? Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. I can only assume you don't have kids, a parent would never make that statement, unless they were doolally of course. Amen. Spoken like a good Austrian.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:00:21 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18033,from=rss#post18033https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18033,from=rss#post18033quote:katie5445 wrote: quote:Rigby5 wrote: quote:Yobbo wrote: Sure it is acceptable. A kid killing a friend is just one of those things, eh? Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. I can only assume you don't have kids, a parent would never make that statement, unless they were doolally of course. Of course ALL parents would make that statement. That is why they authorize police to carry guns. They know that guns are the only thing that protects their children, even though there are always going to be some accidents.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 04:59:28 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18030,from=rss#post18030https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18030,from=rss#post18030quote:katie5445 wrote: quote:Rigby5 wrote: quote:Yobbo wrote: Sure it is acceptable. A kid killing a friend is just one of those things, eh? Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. I can only assume you don't have kids, a parent would never make that statement, unless they were doolally of course. Amen.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Yobbo)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 03:52:49 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18027,from=rss#post18027https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18027,from=rss#post18027quote:Rigby5 wrote: quote:Yobbo wrote: Sure it is acceptable. A kid killing a friend is just one of those things, eh? Better a few accidents rather than only criminals having guns. I can only assume you don't have kids, a parent would never make that statement, unless they were doolally of course.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 03:20:07 +0000 Re: Kids and guns:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18023,from=rss#post18023https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p18023,from=rss#post18023 Never forget.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Fri, 23 Jun 2017 02:39:55 +0000