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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
quote:
cooter50 wrote:
Could wish in one hand poop in the other and resign to the net result too Rigs.
Had it made a bigger dent, been a better alternative and lasted a bit longer on the road as well had the engine changed from gas to diesel at a lesser price I could have done one of these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Automotive
I favor the Elio.
Being a 3 wheeler, it is exempt from things like airbags.
It gets over 85 mpg, and costs $7,450.
link
{...U.S. made by American workers at the former GM plant in Shreveport, Louisiana ...}
{... Elio Motors is an automobile company founded by Paul Elio in 2009. The three-wheeled Elio P4 is engineered to attain a highway mileage rating of up to 84 mpg with regular features such as power windows, a power door lock, cruise control, and air conditioning, all in an aerodynamic, enclosed vehicle body. The vehicle is also equipped with a safety system that includes multiple air bags, anti-lock brakes, traction control, steel unibody frame, and crumple zones. Elio's first manufacturing site will be Shreveport, Louisiana. ...}
{...The design specification includes a target curb weight of 1,350 lb (610 kg); three-wheel anti-lock disc brakes; an inline 0.9 liter three cylinder (designed especially for Elio by IAV), 55 horsepower (41 kW) engine; and front-wheel drive, with a top speed of 107 mph (172 km/h) and an acceleration of 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in approximately 10.8 seconds.[4] The vehicle has an overall length of 160.5 inches (4.08m) and an overall height of 54.2 inches. The front track is 66.8 inches with a wheelbase of 110 inches. The trunk space is 27 × 14 × 10 inches, enough for an airline carry-on bag or a golf bag with the rear seat down (47+ inches).[5] ...}
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7/20/2017, 8:51 pm
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cooter50
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
But in those states with a motorcycle helmet law the operator is required to wear one as is classified as a motorbike three wheeled even as it has a enclosed cockpit without airbags it requires the helmet.
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7/21/2017, 1:25 am
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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
quote:
cooter50 wrote:
But in those states with a motorcycle helmet law the operator is required to wear one as is classified as a motorbike three wheeled even as it has a enclosed cockpit without airbags it requires the helmet.
So far they have successfully sued states that were forcing helmets, and only have a couple left.
{...Helmet Exemption Legislation: 45 states down, 5 more to go. ...}
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7/21/2017, 2:31 am
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cooter50
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
And still yet to produce a saleable product some five years after presentation. Has to meet certain FHSTA standards to be allowed on the roads as well. What is the hold up as to production?
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7/21/2017, 9:44 pm
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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
quote:
cooter50 wrote:
And still yet to produce a saleable product some five years after presentation. Has to meet certain FHSTA standards to be allowed on the roads as well. What is the hold up as to production?
They hand built 200 units in their AZ headquarters, and now are ramping up for the mass production assembly lines in Shreveport, with over 50,000 pre-orders.
So they have satisfied all the federal collision standards, and met all the tests for emissions and everything else. What I hear is they will be in show rooms before the end of the year. But I won't hold my breath, since they are already almost 4 year overdue.
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7/22/2017, 12:33 am
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mais oui
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
quote:
It gets over 85 mpg, (the Elio )
to be blunt I dont believe a word of it!!!
the figure quoted by Elio is an estimate as the car is not yet actually in full production, they also (when you read the small print) claim "UP TO 85 MPG" on that basis a Ferrari might do upto 85 if you are going down hill with a tail wind!
I had the chance yesterday to read "Which " magazine a UK publication which independantly tests a wide variety of products including cars they list no car (other thant electric or hybrids) which returned significantly over 60MPG ( a couple made 61 or less)and that is with imperial gallons the Elio is claiming over 100MPG (imp) so no I just dont believe it - incidentally the Smart was heavily criticised for its poor economy the rated it at 38MPG.
quote:
The point is not what is being sold but why better mileage cars are not being sold, even though they could be.
In Europe (and particularly UK) fuel is expensive there is a huge amount of pressure on manufacturers to wring every possible mile out of a gallon if a manufacturer could get a genuine 75MPG (or even 60MPG) from a medium cost car they would corner the market - people are willing to pay very large premiums for electric vehicles with all the restrictions thjey have because fuel for oil fueled vehicles is so high.
Here we pay an annual tax based on carbon emmissions (graded between £0 and £500) - more MPG means less emmissions another incentive for manufacturers to produce a high MGP model - if the can but the truth is simply that they cant they have hit a ceiling at about 60MPG and currently cannot break through
---
HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
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7/22/2017, 8:56 am
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cooter50
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
I cannot more whole heartedly agree Mais Oui, the dream of a fuel driven 100mpg machine on any but two wheels is a dream at best. This Elio concept has been advertised and advertised and subjected to pre-delivery/pre-production investing for over five years and still no product. I doubt they will produce before ending up as Fisker did.
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7/22/2017, 1:28 pm
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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
quote:
mais oui wrote:
quote:
It gets over 85 mpg, (the Elio )
to be blunt I dont believe a word of it!!!
the figure quoted by Elio is an estimate as the car is not yet actually in full production, they also (when you read the small print) claim "UP TO 85 MPG" on that basis a Ferrari might do upto 85 if you are going down hill with a tail wind!
I had the chance yesterday to read "Which " magazine a UK publication which independantly tests a wide variety of products including cars they list no car (other thant electric or hybrids) which returned significantly over 60MPG ( a couple made 61 or less)and that is with imperial gallons the Elio is claiming over 100MPG (imp) so no I just dont believe it - incidentally the Smart was heavily criticised for its poor economy the rated it at 38MPG.
quote:
The point is not what is being sold but why better mileage cars are not being sold, even though they could be.
In Europe (and particularly UK) fuel is expensive there is a huge amount of pressure on manufacturers to wring every possible mile out of a gallon if a manufacturer could get a genuine 75MPG (or even 60MPG) from a medium cost car they would corner the market - people are willing to pay very large premiums for electric vehicles with all the restrictions thjey have because fuel for oil fueled vehicles is so high.
Here we pay an annual tax based on carbon emmissions (graded between £0 and £500) - more MPG means less emmissions another incentive for manufacturers to produce a high MGP model - if the can but the truth is simply that they cant they have hit a ceiling at about 60MPG and currently cannot break through
That seems silly.
First of all, over 200 Elios have been built and been driven for years.
The 84 mpg is not an estimate or unverified, and had been established by the federal standards testing.
Second is that way back in the 1960s, there were hundreds of cars that got over 45 mpg, with crude low compression, pushrod, carbureted, cast iron engines. Obviously with more compression, careful overhead cam timing, fuel injection, and light alloys, doubling the mileage should be reasonable.
Third is that obviously the Elio has obvious advantages like the weight loss of only 3 wheels, and the friction savings of the narrow body.
It should not at all be surprising to get over 80 mpg since the Messerchmitt 3 wheeler already did that over 60 years ago.
{...
The narrow body, and corresponding low frontal area, was achieved with tandem seating, which also allowed the body to taper like an aircraft fuselage, within a practical length. 10 PS (7.4 kW; 9.9 hp) propelled the KR200 to around 105 km/h (65 mph). The fuel consumption of the car was 3.2 L/100 km (87 mpg‑imp)
...}
(Although that does seem to indicate imperial gallons.)
Last edited by Rigby5, 7/22/2017, 2:38 pm
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7/22/2017, 2:36 pm
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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
100 mpg kit link
The fact car companies are not selling 100 mpg cars does not mean they are not easy to do.
The number of home made kits shows it is easy to do.
This one is by a "Mother Earth News" author.
{...
The 100 Mile-Per-Gallon Alternative Car
100 mpg with off-the-shelf technology? Jack McCornack isn’t crazy, he just believes cars can have a lot better fuel economy than we’ve settled for historically. Enter MAX — the MOTHER EARTH NEWS entry in the Auto X Prize competition, a $10 million race for 100 mile-per-gallon alternative cars. This article details MAX’s origins and the early stages of its development.
Learn about the 100 mile-per-gallon alternative car contest. Meet Jack McCornack, the brains behind MAX — the 100-mpg hopeful that you’ll be able to build.
Without any whiz-bang technology, we’re building a 100 mile-per-gallon alternative car for the Auto X Prize competition. MAX may not win the Auto X Prize, but it will prove a point that 100 mpg is within reach without futuristic technology.
The 100 Mile-Per-Gallon Alternative Car
There’s a contest underway to build 100-mile-per-gallon (mpg) cars that are practical and feasible for mass-production. Known as the Progressive Insurance Automotive X Prize, it will award $10 million to whomever can crack the 100-mpg puzzle and best demonstrate the achievement during cross-country races. When the races start in 2009, I’ll be behind the wheel of a sporty two-seater that will be as cool as it will be fuel-efficient.
Through a series of MOTHER EARTH NEWS articles and updates online, and at Kinetic Vehicles you can come along for the ride.
Who are You, and How did You Get This Awesome Gig?
I’m Jack McCornack, and I have a history of tinkering with “alternative” vehicles. I was an energy conserve-and-economize zealot before Jimmy Carter wore a cardigan. In the early ’70s, when we were only allowed to buy gas every other day, I drove past the long gas lines in a homemade contraption that got 125 mpg. In the late ’70s, while working with MOTHER EARTH NEWS, I made aircraft that got 40 mpg on home-brewed alcohol, and I helped with the tilting, three-wheeled 3VG concept vehicle. (You can read the original articles about these projects in The Flight of the Microlights and a two-part series Hey, Take a Look at Our Three-Wheeled Car and A Hybrid Vehicle Leaning Toward the Future: The 3VG (PART II).) These days, my latest company, Kinetic Vehicles, supplies parts (and sage advice) for lightweight do-it-yourself sports cars.
...}
This particular kit was for a 3 cylinder Kubota diesel engine and light fiberglass body.
Last edited by Rigby5, 7/22/2017, 2:51 pm
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7/22/2017, 2:48 pm
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Rigby5
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Re: Diesel is Cleaner After All
India makes many cars getting over 65 mpg.
{...
Launched initially in petrol version, Maruti Suzuki Celerio gained popularity for being the first AMT equipped hatchback in India. The diesel version followed the suit and is claimed to deliver 27.62km/l, making it the second most fuel-efficient car in India.
Powering the Maruti Celerio Diesel is a 793cc, 2-cylinder diesel engine that has been developed locally by Maruti with an investment of over ₹ 900 crore. The cylinder block of this new small engine is all aluminium and gets a compact fuel distribution system along with a turbocharger.
This engine churns out a maximum power output of 47bhp and 125Nm of peak torque. The engine is mated to a 5-speed manual gearbox and does not come with the option of an AMT. Petrol powered Celerio is equally frugal at 23.1km/l.
...}
{...
Under the hood, Maruti Suzuki Baleno features same 1.2 litre petrol and Fiat sourced 1.3 litre DDiS engine that power Swift hatchback. The 1.3 litre Multijet diesel engine powering Baleno is good for 83bhp of power and 190Nm of torque and has been tuned to deliver an excellent mileage of 27.39 km/l.
...}
{...
The new-generation Honda Jazz's front profile gets City-inspired head-lamps with integrated static bending lights, grille with chrome lining and piano black finish among other changes.
However, the biggest change is under the hood as it is now available with a diesel engine. The vehicle comes with two engine options - 1.5-litre i-DTEC diesel and 1.2-litre i-VTEC petrol - both of which power the Amaze as well.
The diesel unit, mated to a 6-speed manual gearbox, churns out 99bhp & 200Nm and is claimed deliver an ARAI-certified mileage of 27.3km/l. Though the diesel engine used by the Jazz is the same that powers the City, the former with 8 per cent taller gear ratios return better mileage.
...}
{...
Tata Tiago
Available in petrol and diesel guise, the 1.2 litre Revotron petrol engine powers the petrol variants and for diesel range, it gets a 1.05 litre Revotorq unit. Mated to a five-speed manual transmission, the more frugal diesel engine puts out 67bhp and 140Nm and returns ARAI rated mileage of 27.28 km/l. The petrol unit on the other hand promises 23.4km/l.
...}
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7/22/2017, 3:05 pm
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