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Time moves on, end of delineation


Boy Scouts are now going to allow Girls so they may charge headlong into those realms once held for Boys and young men, HOWEVER no tit for tat as Girl Scouts are ONLY allowing those Transgender Boys into their midst. Double standards at work yet again.

Why not meld the Two scouting groups into a Blanket "Scouts" for any and all? That to me would be 'Equal standard'.
10/12/2017, 12:21 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


That makes sense.

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"libido sciendi"..... the passion to know.
10/12/2017, 12:28 pm Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


I was a Boy Scout as well a Explorer. Girls after age 16 WERE allowed in Explorers as we even as a distinct division of Boy Scouting were a extension off shoot for growing Pre-adults but was discontinued due to lack of interest and participation.

As an Old scout I will probably discontinue the donations I once sent there as it is NO LONGER the marked association I felt comfortable growing with.

Of My nephews only two of five were scouts, one made Eagle but as I noted in the endeavor was no where near the requirements as when I was making my attempt. I made Life scout before became too old moving to Explorer Scouts, many that tried worked so very hard just ran out of time or had not the advantages to gain access to aspects where they could advance to Eagle Scout. The entire program is slighted today as I see it, giving more options and more leniency as to making the efforts and earning the Merit Badges. I had seen with my one nephew parents doing the majority of the work so their son could benefit from the title of Eagle Scout and had done little on his own to earn it. Eagle Scout no longer shines as it once did, forever tarnished in this man's eye.
10/12/2017, 12:42 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


The American boy scout movement don't allow atheists to join their ranks.
10/12/2017, 8:17 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


"Why not meld the Two scouting groups into a Blanket "Scouts" for any and all? That to me would be 'Equal standard'."

And of course these men would be in charge:

Boy Scouts of America sex abuse cases - Wikipedia
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... given how men being charge of every is just the natural (and economic) order of things.

Why would the Girl Scouts want to merge with that crowd ?
10/12/2017, 9:28 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


I think the biggest reason is sometimes boys like to be together in a group and sometimes girls do as adult females and males do. They have the option to band together or not. Adults are the ones that make a big deal out of it.
10/14/2017, 4:22 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Boy Scouts are now going to allow Girls so they may charge headlong into those realms once held for Boys and young men, HOWEVER no tit for tat as Girl Scouts are ONLY allowing those Transgender Boys into their midst. Double standards at work yet again.



Two separate organizations with their own rules.

But there are others -

Christian Alternative to Boy Scouts: We Still Proudly Exclude Girls and Gays!

Yesterday, the Boy Scouts of America announced that girls will be allowed to join as Cub Scouts and be eligible to earn the rank of Eagle Scout.

Without missing a beat, Trail Life USA, the conservative Christian alternative to the BSA, announced that they were still ]proudly excluding everyone they could.

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10/14/2017, 12:25 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Atheist still aren't welcome - according to scouting magazine

quote:

... belief in God is a cornerstone of Scouting ...

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10/14/2017, 12:28 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


FOCUS Shifty, on the OP, if you wish to start a post against other organizations do so but don't commandeer a previous.

As to Boy Scouts and their Oath:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.

Hard to be reverent if an Atheist.
10/16/2017, 12:30 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

FOCUS Shifty, on the OP, if you wish to start a post against other organizations do so but don't commandeer a previous.

As to Boy Scouts and their Oath:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.

Hard to be reverent if an Atheist.



Absolute heifer dust.

The word "reverent" has nothing to do with whether or not someone believes in an invisible superfriend - all it means is feeling or showing deep and solemn respect. Nothing to do with whether or not someone is an atheist.

==============================

BTW - you're the one that brought girl scouts into the discussion - all I did was point out that the two organizations you mentioned aren't the only ones out there and if you want to discriminate there are other organizations beyond these two.

Last edited by shiftless2, 10/16/2017, 6:02 pm
10/16/2017, 5:58 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


The Oath:

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty 'to God' and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight
10/16/2017, 6:21 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Thus the 'Reverance' within the spirit of Boy Scouts. You cannot state the oath as written or do so as an atheist and you have already lied being less than 'Trustworthy'.

Failure to recite as written and you did no one any favors including yourself. The Scouts WERE at one time a comradery of souls learning to overcome as a team not as a single and to work together for a common goal. It has lost that aspect where with more changes fails to remain any semblance of what I enjoyed as a youth.
10/16/2017, 6:34 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Thus the 'Reverance' within the spirit of Boy Scouts. You cannot state the oath as written or do so as an atheist and you have already lied being less than 'Trustworthy'.

Failure to recite as written and you did no one any favors including yourself. The Scouts WERE at one time a comradery of souls learning to overcome as a team not as a single and to work together for a common goal. It has lost that aspect where with more changes fails to remain any semblance of what I enjoyed as a youth.



And, has already been pointed out, the Boy Scouts now accepts girls but not atheists.

Fact is, the boy scouts have evolved over time but still have a ways to go.

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10/16/2017, 7:22 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


They evolve further the further away from what they started as and the values to which those that earned badges of their times where the structure is become valueless.
10/17/2017, 11:45 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


If anything, as it becomes more accepting, the structure becomes more valuable. The days when open bigotry was acceptable are behind us (or at least were until Trump took office).

As for the inclusion of "God" in the oath, while that's an unfortunate historical fact, it's something that should go the way of the dinosaur. Fact is ]the majority of Americans no longer believe that you need god to be good. Moreover the majority of the British public are of the opinion that religion does more harm that good (fitting since Lord Baden Powell was a British army officer).

And since not quite 30% of the American public are atheists that part of the oath is becoming more meaningless (and less representative) all the time. [As an observation, that 30% refers to all Americans - the percentage of young people is significantly higher.]
10/17/2017, 12:42 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Nothing is ever All Encompassing 'Acceptable to Everyone'. Misconceived preconception of absolute perfection. A liberal ideology.
10/17/2017, 3:47 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:
Nothing is ever All Encompassing 'Acceptable to Everyone'. Misconceived preconception of absolute perfection. A liberal ideology.




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10/17/2017, 4:02 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


PT Barnum said it most succinctly, a Sucker Born every Minute. As well the common statement 'You can please(some place fool here) some of the people most of the time, most of the people some of the time but never all of the people all of the time'.
10/17/2017, 4:19 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

PT Barnum said it most succinctly, a Sucker Born every Minute.



Are you suggesting that those are the people that buy into the old discriminatory policies that are gradually being eroded?

10/17/2017, 4:39 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Nothing is ever All Encompassing 'Acceptable to Everyone'. Misconceived preconception of absolute perfection. A liberal ideology.



So you're saying that discriminatory policies and outright bigotry are good things?
10/17/2017, 4:40 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Not in the slightest bit of YOUR imagination. You take a great deal of pride in throwing that Card do you not?

The group has been based as they have for over 100 years, the Oath has not been adjusted so a Atheist even as would be allowed into the group would have to recite the Oath and in doing so either agrees there is God or has lied before all the others in the group by believing there is no God. Cannot have both.

Petition the Scouts to have that "Offensive" statement removed so ALL may partake of the Scouting Event and you not only destroy what it has stood for but would see most likely the end of the entity in total benefiting NO ONE but the arguer.
10/17/2017, 5:34 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Not in the slightest bit of YOUR imagination. You take a great deal of pride in throwing that Card do you not?



So you're claiming that the BSA's aren't discriminating when they won't admit atheists?

quote:

The group has been based as they have for over 100 years,


  
One of the classical logical fallacies is called an "argument from antiquity" which basically says that since something has been around for a long time it must be right/good. That's hardly true.

quote:

...the Oath has not been adjusted so a Atheist even as would be allowed into the group would have to recite the Oath and in doing so either agrees there is God or has lied before all the others in the group by believing there is no God. Cannot have both.



For the record you don't seem to know what an atheist is - by definition, an atheist is someone that does not believe that god (any god) exists (that is very different from believing that there is no god). If you want to be formal, an "agnostic atheist" is someone that does not believe that god exists while a "gnostic atheist" is someone that believes that god does not exist. The words "agnostic" and "gnostic" come from the Greek for knowledge. [By the same token, a theist is someone that believes that god exists and they can be subdivided into agnostic and gnostic theists.]

quote:

Petition the Scouts to have that "Offensive" statement removed so ALL may partake of the Scouting Event and you not only destroy what it has stood for but would see most likely the end of the entity in total benefiting NO ONE but the arguer.



How exactly would this destroy what the Scouts stand for? After all, while they refuse admission to atheists they don't present themselves as a religious organization and I can't see how dropping a reference to "God" is going to damage them. After all, they've survived allowing gays to become scouts and scoutmasters, the admission of transgendered boys, and now the acceptance of girls. Fact is, I'd expect amending the oath would have even less effect.

10/17/2017, 7:04 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Most theists believe that all gods bar theirs do not exist. This makes them selective atheists.

Atheists differ by one god.
10/17/2017, 7:17 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


" Hard to be reverent if an Atheist. "

Not really, as in :
President Trump demands loyalty and reverence to him, even as he he disrespects the office of POTUS, himself.
10/17/2017, 7:42 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


How to become an atheist in three easy steps:

1 - pick any god other than your own - Zeus, Mithra, Odin, doesn't matter, as long as you don't believe that he exists

2 - list the reasons you don't believe in that god

3 - apply those reasons to your own god

Done
10/18/2017, 1:02 am Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Atheism, the disbelief or lack of belief in any God or Gods.

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Change the Oath and you have removed the basic context of the organization, thus the basis organization ceases to exist.
10/18/2017, 10:48 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Atheism, the disbelief or lack of belief in any God or Gods.

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Which is very different from believing that god doesn't exist.

quote:

Change the Oath and you have removed the basic context of the organization, thus the basis organization ceases to exist.



So you're claiming that the Scouts are a religious organization and it exists for the sole purpose of pushing a belief in "God"?

I'm sure most scouts would be amazed (amused?) to find that everything the scouting movement stands for would cease to exist if references to God were removed from the oath. And I'm sure that Lord Baden Powell would be equally surprised.

10/18/2017, 12:06 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Nope, did NOT state that either, but as to a morality based association belief in a or ANY God is a purpose of binding a group and they use that in the scouts. We had Hindu in our Scouts Troop in 1969, so long as they had a religious belief Welcome. Atheism has no such belief so how can they have Morality as Morals are based on religious pretext?
10/18/2017, 1:12 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

...Atheism has no such belief so how can they have Morality as Morals are based on religious pretext?



That is absolute fcuking nonsense and has to rank among one of the dumbest claims that theists want to fall back on.

The moral codes that are found in various religion were imported from the society around them, not the other way around.

If the only reason that someone is behaving morally is because of a concern about a punishment or reward in some sort of afterlife they're not a moral person to begin with.

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10/18/2017, 3:33 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


BTW, the word "God" with an upper case "G" is a name and, given the history of the scouting movement, it was clearly intended to refer to the Christian god. So how can someone with different religious beliefs repeat the oath without either lying or modifying it by substituting the name of their own god (or by just not repeating that particular line)

BTW - the latter approach (simply not saying the words "under god") is one way that atheists have of addressing the Pledge of Allegiance. Suppose you could argue that's different because by dropping those two words all they're doing is reverting to the original oath (the word "under god" were added in 1954)
10/19/2017, 3:56 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 


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