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cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Rewriting the Oath, reduces the validity of the strength of the organization to those that have already been in it. Go right ahead and change it, makes little difference as entry levels are dissolving and the value of the Eagle Scout program are no longer taken to the values they once carried.

Is no longer and will not ever be the Boy Scouts as the majority of those that have been thru it will attest. I would not even consider sending a child into the slowly dying association at this juncture as so many of my colleagues consider at the same level.
1/5/2018, 1:09 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


How does rewriting the oath "reduce the validity" of the organization?

And what do you mean when you say that "entry levels are dissolving"? Is that a polite way of saying that the Scouts now accept people who don't look and believe like you do?

And I'd love to hear your explanation of why "the value of the Eagle Scout program are no longer taken to the values they once carried".

 
1/5/2018, 2:21 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Discards one of the basis fundamental's of the organization, do that and start new or just close shop.
1/5/2018, 5:39 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Discards one of the basis fundamental's of the organization, do that and start new or just close shop.



So the BSA is primarily a religious organization?

BTW, the scouting movement has already changed drastically from its origins. When Lord Baden-Powell first established the scouting movement he envisioned a paramilitary organization that was intended to prepare boys for military service (much like the Hitler Youth) - this was at a time when military service was associated with "manliness".

Baden-Powell himself "was a peculiar character: "He was a racist and an imperialist and a monarchist, all right, but most of the time to a temperate degree. ... He had charm and courage, and a knack with the young, and he could draw excellent freehand illustrations.""

If you want to be a traditionalist I suppose we could reposition the scouts to be the way that their founder envisioned

If Baden-Powell had had his way, the Boy Scouts might have formed close ties with the Hitler Youth. In 1937, he told the Scouts' international commissioner that the Nazis were "most anxious that the Scouts should come into closer touch with the youth movement in Germany." Baden-Powell met with the German ambassador in London and was invited to meet the Führer himself, though the war prevented him from visiting the Third Reich. But he continued to admire Hitler's values, writing in a 1939 diary entry that Mein Kampf was "a wonderful book, with good ideas on education, health, propaganda, organisation etc."

SOURCE

Or we could move into modern times and recognize that some of those "old fashioned values" are not only no longer valid but are simply wrong.
1/5/2018, 7:06 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Discards one of the basis fundamental's of the organization, do that and start new or just close shop.



I assume you know that it was an Englishman who created the Boy Scouts but I bet you don't know the English have dropped "God" from the pledge, your duty now is not to God and Queen but the Queen only.
1/5/2018, 7:26 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Discards one of the basis fundamental's of the organization, do that and start new or just close shop.



Refusing to accept atheists into the organization means that a very significant percentage of Americans would be ineligible for membership.

Recent studies have concluded that roughly a quarter of Americans are atheists and since young people (i.e., the age group that is eligible to join) are more likely to be atheists than older age groups, that's banning a lot of people.

And unless you believe that the primary purpose of the BSA is to serve as a religious organization, absolutely nothing is lost by eliminating an archaic requirement.

1/5/2018, 9:04 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Discards one of the basis fundamental's of the organization, do that and start new or just close shop.



I assume you know that it was an Englishman who created the Boy Scouts but I bet you don't know the English have dropped "God" from the pledge, your duty now is not to God and Queen but the Queen only.



They pretty much had to since the majority of Brits are either atheist or agnostic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uk-is-one-of-the-least-religious-countries-in-the-world-survey-finds-10173589.html

1/6/2018, 7:05 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Only 13% are atheists, overall it seemed to me they do believe in God, they are just to hung over and in bed to go to church or they are on the football pitch. emoticon
1/6/2018, 7:42 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


I suspect the real number is far higher than 13%.

While this article is actually about the US I'm sure the same holds true for the UK.

It is true that both Pew and Gallup conclude that roughly 10% of Americans are atheists (and 30% are "nones") there is a problem with their methodology. It’s always safe to say that self-reporting (especially if there are real or perceived negative consequences to admitting to something) will always under report. The question here is “by how much?”

These authors employ a different method that's intended to correct for that

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/4/13/15258496/american-atheists-how-many
 
You can click thru to the actual paper and you’ll find this
 
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/how%20many%20atheists-%20full.pdf

quote:

We used the unmatched count technique and Bayesian estimation to indirectly estimate atheist prevalence in two nationally representative samples of 2000 U.S. adults apiece. Widely-cited telephone polls (e.g., Gallup, Pew) suggest USA atheist prevalence of only 3-11%. In contrast, our most credible indirect estimate is 26% (albeit with considerable estimate and method uncertainty). Our data and model predict that atheist prevalence exceeds 11% with greater than .99 probability, and exceeds 20% with roughly .8 probability. Prevalence estimates of 11% were even less credible than estimates of 40%, and all intermediate estimates were more credible. Some popular theoretical approaches to religious cognition may require heavy revision to accommodate actual levels of religious disbelief
 
Emphasis is mine



That's math speak for "our best estimate is that 26% of Americans are atheists but, if we're wrong, the answer is more likely to be 40% than 11%"

I expect that the UK won't be that much different (other than the fact that being an atheist there has fewer negative connotations than it does in the US)
1/6/2018, 9:21 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


I started going there in the mid 80's and I can't recall one conversation about atheism. I didn't know anyone's religion/faith unless they stated it and that was rare. Talks on religion were during the "troubles" and from my point of view in England, which no doubt is far different than those in N.I., it seemed more political and economical than religious at least in 90's.
1/6/2018, 10:29 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 


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