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cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


As a side note, if an Atheist, a DEFINED and denoted atheist wants in scouting for the benefit of the system as to getting the points for advancements or positions or political favoritism, then the atheist is only being as much manipulative and selfish, another reason NOT to let them in.

If the Group has to change to give credence to the Atheist then the value of the group IS lost.

Last edited by cooter50, 4/2/2018, 1:00 am
4/2/2018, 12:59 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


So what you're saying is that the Boy Scouts is primarily a religious organization? (After all, you've just said that without God the Boy Scouts has no meaning.)

I generally agree with your second to last post - with the exception of "duty to God and country". If you amend that to read "duty to country" I could accept that With the exception of that one word the rest of what you've posted is about being a better person. That's an admirable goal. But there's no reason to invoke any sort of supernatural being to accomplish that.

Fact is, even the US Presidential Oath of Office doesn't include any reference to god - for that matter the incoming POTUS doesn't have to "swear" to perform his duties. He/she can simply "affirm" that they will do so. And the military doesn't require anyone to swear to god. So why should the Boy Scouts?

BTW - capitalizing the word "God" makes it a name and is generally only used for the god of the Bible - guess people who don't worship the god of Abraham are SOL.

Of course, if you're going to claim that the oath only refers to a supreme being (or beings) of some sort does that mean you're going to admit Satanists?

But that aside, given that roughly one quarter of the US populace does not believe that god (any god) exists (and the percentage of young people that fit that is even higher) the Scouts are working very hard at becoming an anachronism in their own time.



Last edited by shiftless2, 4/2/2018, 12:42 pm
4/2/2018, 12:32 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


 Atheists would have no use of such a association so why force the change to make it acceptable? To be selfish and demanding of the benefits relegated by that God associated Group that gets better placement due to their efforts to be better people.

So your point

Last edited by Noserose, 4/2/2018, 3:38 pm
4/2/2018, 2:24 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


I have no idea what you're talking about.

Why wouldn't an atheist benefit from everything that the Scouts have to offer (other than the religious indoctrination that you appear to feel is fundamental to the organization's very existence)?

After all, the Boy Scouts now accepts girlys. They accept openly gay members and scoutmasters. The even accept the transgendered. So why are they hanging onto an even more antiquated restriction?

But just to refresh your memory, since this thread started because the BSA decided to admit girls, this is well worth your time (both the NYT Daily and the Tweet)

Meet Elsa Moock, 10, who joined the Boy Scouts and has a lot to teach us about being brave -- and being ourselves. Listen to her on today's special kids episode of The Daily:

https://t.co/gHKWTlb8P8

https://t.co/iEqqTj2R4X

Comments on the tweet are generally very supportive - reading the few negative comments it appears that the majority of posters never listened to the entire article.

4/2/2018, 4:01 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


And as Noted by myself as well others that DID enjoy the Old Scouting the association has been changed to allow any and all so the benefit to the means is at an end and the association is no longer the one of note just a name. Good luck to those that enter now as it holds no value any further and garners no support from the majority of old scouts.
4/2/2018, 5:00 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


You mean "holds no value for former scouts whose attitudes remain firmly rooted in the 1950's" - you know, the days when open bigotry (and racism) was acceptable. After all, those attitudes were all supported by the bible.
4/2/2018, 6:19 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Do not place YOUR words in my mouth. I stated as I did and clearly that the Old BSA association is No More, the new Scouting is not the BSA and will not retain support from the old ex-scouts as it does no longer represent them.

You and those that wished a change to allow any and all to enter to gain from the experience from BSA has failed in essence where those that WERE Boy Scouts of America members and earned their badges under that association while being good representatives of their society will not accept those that find there way into the new association to simply, shallowly gain from having been there.

Most Eagle Scouts do not note that on Resume' they simply state if at all as to been or being in the BSA as a whole where during interview they are asked if made Eagle or been in such a association. It WAS a badge of honor, not a flag to be waved as expected of those looking to gain selfishly at this time.

Your loss not mine, I was a BSA member and proud to have been.
4/3/2018, 11:22 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


Have to admit that I've never seen anyone list "Eagle Scout" or any such thing on a resume - have seen them list things like "Scout Leader" in the same way I used to list running the University Judo Club or teaching theory at my local ham radio club.

And I'm not placing words in your mouth - you're the one that keeps insisting that the "old" BSA is no more because they're now more open and accepting and you're also the one that insists that the BSA is primarily a religious organization because of all the horrible things that will happen if they drop the reference to god from their oath.

As an observation, since the Presidential Oath of Office includes no reference to god, the US military doesn't have to swear to God, witnesses in a courtroom don't have to swear to god, and so forth, what does the BSA gain by keeping that one vestige of the 1950's?

But there are alternatives. Perhaps this is more to your taste?

Christian Alternative to Boy Scouts: We Still Proudly Exclude Girls and Gays!

Yesterday, the Boy Scouts of America announced that girls will be allowed to join as Cub Scouts and be eligible to earn the rank of Eagle Scout.

Without missing a beat, Trail Life USA, the conservative Christian alternative to the BSA, announced that they were still proudly excluding everyone they could.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/10/12/christian-alternative-to-boy-scouts-we-still-proudly-exclude-girls-and-gays/
4/3/2018, 1:16 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


No longer stuck in the 50's (the 1850's that is) ...

As girls arrive, Boy Scouts change name of flagship program


For 108 years, the Boy Scouts of America’s flagship program has been known simply as the Boy Scouts. With girls soon entering the ranks, the group says that iconic name will change.

The organization on Wednesday announced a new name for its Boy Scouts program: Scouts BSA. The change will take effect in February.

Chief Scout Executive Mike Surbaugh said many possibilities were considered during lengthy and “incredibly fun” deliberations before the new name was chosen.

“We wanted to land on something that evokes the past but also conveys the inclusive nature of the program going forward,” he said. “We’re trying to find the right way to say we’re here for both young men and young women.”

The parent organization will remain the Boy Scouts of America, and the Cub Scouts — its program serving children from kindergarten through fifth grade — will keep its title, as well.

But the Boy Scouts — the program for 11- to 17-year-olds — will now be Scouts BSA.

The organization already has started admitting girls into the Cub Scouts, and Scouts BSA begins accepting girls next year.

Surbaugh predicted that ...

MORE>
5/3/2018, 10:51 am Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
shiftless2 Profile
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Re: Time moves on, end of delineation


No surprise here but conservatives are busy changing their underwear after hearing this.

5/3/2018, 12:04 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 


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