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Philer Profile
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Still believe in our jury system?


I certainly don't. Of course I haven't believed in it for a long time. I've seen far too many examples of this kind of jury bias and incompetence.

Our jury system takes, dumb, biased and irrational people and gives them the power to make major legal decisions affecting other people on trial as well as future potential victims. It's a system that is so flawed that it should be completely eliminated from this society.

In this case we see a jury once again favoring a man over a female victim to the point where they wouldn't even convict him of manslaughter, let alone murder.

Keep in mind that even if the jury was convinced the shooting was accidental that doesn't rule out convicting him of manslaughter. In fact, that is exactly the crime he would have been guilty of committing.

So why didn't this jury do so?

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12/1/2017, 5:54 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


quote:

“Both the prosecution and defense worked very hard in litigating this case,” he said. “At the end of the day, however, it is up to the jury to determine what they believe is an appropriate verdict. They came back the way they did and we will respect the jury’s decision.”



I don't. Why would anyone respect such an irrational verdict?

quote:

After the verdict was read, the victim’s father, Jim Steinle, told The San Francisco Chronicle, “We’re just shocked — saddened and shocked.”



To be shocked I would have had to be unfamiliar with our jury system and how poorly it functions.

quote:

“There’s no other way you can coin it,” he said. “Justice was rendered, but it was not served.”



A very common result of using jurors who wouldn't know justice if it bit them in the butt. Jurors often don't have a clue about justice.
12/1/2017, 6:02 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


I think there was reasonable doubt.

1. Version : He found something wrapped in cloth was unwrapping the cloth when the gun went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

2. Version: He told the police he kicked the gun and it went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

3. Version: He was trying to kill a seal, shot the victim by accident after the bullet ricochet.

video shows him running away from the scene and they found the gun that was apparently thrown into the ocean. His hands tested positive for recently firing a gun.
 
That is all the evidence they had.


What we have is a highly political case. The police overcharged him. If they had charged him with manslaughter, then he would of been convicted.

by all accounts the bullet did ricochet, making it nearly impossible for a jury to find him guilty of intentionally murdering the victim.

Last edited by snowpixie, 12/1/2017, 7:06 am
12/1/2017, 7:06 am Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


Yes Philer, we know you dont believe in the American judicial system. My only questions of you are simply why do you not find a country with what you regard a superior system? And once you find that country, why do you not emigrate to that country?

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12/1/2017, 2:14 pm Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


quote:

snowpixie wrote:

I think there was reasonable doubt.

1. Version : He found something wrapped in cloth was unwrapping the cloth when the gun went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

2. Version: He told the police he kicked the gun and it went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

3. Version: He was trying to kill a seal, shot the victim by accident after the bullet ricochet.

video shows him running away from the scene and they found the gun that was apparently thrown into the ocean. His hands tested positive for recently firing a gun.
 
That is all the evidence they had.


What we have is a highly political case. The police overcharged him. If they had charged him with manslaughter, then he would of been convicted.

by all accounts the bullet did ricochet, making it nearly impossible for a jury to find him guilty of intentionally murdering the victim.



Based on the article it appears they could have found him guilty of manslaughter even assuming it was an accident so why didn't they at least do that? Based on any version of the events you mentioned above he could have been found guilty of that crime under our laws. And if his hand tested positive for gun shot residue we can eliminate at least one of those scenarios, the one involving him kicking the gun.

Instead the jury acquitted him which means from their standpoint he was not at all responsible for her being shot. But if he wasn't responsible what was? The gun itself?

It was another ridiculous, irrational verdict which makes no sense.

"An undocumented Mexican immigrant was acquitted of murder and manslaughter charges on Thursday in the killing of Kathryn Steinle, whose death while out walking on a San Francisco pier became a touchstone in the national debate over immigration fueled by Donald J. Trump."
12/1/2017, 5:20 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


quote:

GoHawk wrote:

Yes Philer, we know you dont believe in the American judicial system. My only questions of you are simply why do you not find a country with what you regard a superior system? And once you find that country, why do you not emigrate to that country?



It's not that I don't believe in our judicial system completely. We have to have some sort of a judicial system. I just want to see it greatly improved.

And it would certainly take more than a crappy jury system to result in me wanting to leave this country. We just need to get rid of that system which relies on the biased efforts of nincompoops.
12/1/2017, 5:31 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


A couple of other points that I forgot to mention. The same sort of problems exist in other countries so one couldn't avoid them by moving to any of those countries.

Countries that rely on tribunals and judges demonstrate the same sort of bias in cases where women are involved either as defendants or victims. Men are still favored over women.

We seek to avoid those sorts of problems with our jury system but it doesn't work. All we do is spend more time and money on juries when we could achieve about the same results by just using judges.

And we could track and detect the patterns of bias better if we only used judges and then do something about them. We could fire extremely biased judges. Incompetent, biased juries can't be fired after a trial is over because their job is done.

 
12/1/2017, 5:44 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


quote:

Philer wrote:

A couple of other points that I forgot to mention. The same sort of problems exist in other countries so one couldn't avoid them by moving to any of those countries.

Countries that rely on tribunals and judges demonstrate the same sort of bias in cases where women are involved either as defendants or victims. Men are still favored over women.

We seek to avoid those sorts of problems with our jury system but it doesn't work. All we do is spend more time and money on juries when we could achieve about the same results by just using judges.

And we could track and detect the patterns of bias better if we only used judges and then do something about them. We could fire extremely biased judges. Incompetent, biased juries can't be fired after a trial is over because their job is done.

 


Check out other countries' legal systems. I know New Zealand's is much less gender biased.
12/1/2017, 6:37 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


If you look at many other western countries, there are far more women self employed, far more women that are CEO's, far more women in high political positions than in the US. They also have tighter anti discrimination laws and hate crime laws and it seems to me they are taken more seriously than here.
12/1/2017, 7:35 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Still believe in our jury system?


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

snowpixie wrote:

I think there was reasonable doubt.

1. Version : He found something wrapped in cloth was unwrapping the cloth when the gun went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

2. Version: He told the police he kicked the gun and it went off ricochet and hit the victim in the back.

3. Version: He was trying to kill a seal, shot the victim by accident after the bullet ricochet.

video shows him running away from the scene and they found the gun that was apparently thrown into the ocean. His hands tested positive for recently firing a gun.
 
That is all the evidence they had.


What we have is a highly political case. The police overcharged him. If they had charged him with manslaughter, then he would of been convicted.

by all accounts the bullet did ricochet, making it nearly impossible for a jury to find him guilty of intentionally murdering the victim.



Based on the article it appears they could have found him guilty of manslaughter even assuming it was an accident so why didn't they at least do that? Based on any version of the events you mentioned above he could have been found guilty of that crime under our laws. And if his hand tested positive for gun shot residue we can eliminate at least one of those scenarios, the one involving him kicking the gun.

Instead the jury acquitted him which means from their standpoint he was not at all responsible for her being shot. But if he wasn't responsible what was? The gun itself?

It was another ridiculous, irrational verdict which makes no sense.

"An undocumented Mexican immigrant was acquitted of murder and manslaughter charges on Thursday in the killing of Kathryn Steinle, whose death while out walking on a San Francisco pier became a touchstone in the national debate over immigration fueled by Donald J. Trump."



my apology, i didn't realize involuntary manslaughter was on the table.

 So, a convicted felon in possession of a stolen firearm accidentally kills an innocent woman and the jury doesn't convict him of involuntary manslaughter.

let's think about how many cases recently that cops have accidentally killed people while arresting them or transporting them.

I'm talking about the firearm accidentally going off, or they restricted their breathing and the person died, or they transported them back in a van and they later died of injuries because they were not properly restrained.


I would say our jury system is awesome when it acquits cops or George Zimmerman, but never ever when a drug dealing, illegal alien acquitted.

Apparently their isn't a double standard with juries in San Francisco. Which has a lot of people upset.
12/1/2017, 7:39 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 


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