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What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


What has this stuff got to do with taxes?

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{Things that few want are tucked into the GOP tax bill. Its how you force your will on people and it should stop. Don't you think?]

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12/5/2017, 11:10 am Link to this post PM Noserose
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


It is legislation for the 1%
12/5/2017, 6:18 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


The manner in which government works — or doesnt work — is not a pretty proxess in any country. But sadly i havecome to agree with Yobbo, it is a particularly ugly, and grotesquely inerricientn, process in the U.S.

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12/7/2017, 9:14 am Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


And Paul Ryan's statement, medicare, medicaid, welfare are next in their tax plan. Medicare according to Ryan, the biggest entitlement of all.
12/8/2017, 4:27 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


I'm glad that it was killed, but how WAS taxing poor grad students, the future innovators and leaders, suppose MAGA ?

Does anyone get that ?
If so edify me on the reasoning behind that tax increase, please.

It is good it was killed, but isn't my question, how it got in there in the first place, what it was supposed to do, still the better question if the anyone's goal to make America great, not backwards ?
12/15/2017, 5:00 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

And Paul Ryan's statement, medicare, medicaid, welfare are next in their tax plan. Medicare according to Ryan, the biggest entitlement of all.



And you have a link for this quote?
12/15/2017, 8:27 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


Ryan says Republicans to target welfare, Medicare, Medicaid spending in 2018

By Jeff Stein December 6, 2017

Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told reporters March 16 that he is working closely with President Trump on health-care legislation. (Reuters)
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America's deficit.

“We're going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” Ryan said during an appearance on Ross Kaminsky's talk radio show. "... Frankly, it's the health care entitlements that are the big drivers of our debt, so we spend more time on the health care entitlements — because that's really where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.”

Ryan said that he believes he has begun convincing President Trump in their private conversations about the need to rein in Medicare, the federal health program that primarily insures the elderly.

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12/16/2017, 11:24 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


Rep. Joe Kennedy III‏
@RepJoeKennedy

A week from today, hours after delivering a massive, unfunded handout to corporations sitting on $2.3 trillion in cash, GOP might shut down the government because providing care for low-income kids would bankrupt us.
12/16/2017, 3:50 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


And nothing within that news report notes he correlated Medicare to an entitlement, just that it ALSO has to be reined in, possibly as the excess expenditures or charges by less than prudent/honest physicians or health care services.

Was a 'Honorable Mention' AFTER speaking of the entitlement programs. That is seeing what you expect to.
12/16/2017, 4:13 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

And nothing within that news report notes he correlated Medicare to an entitlement, just that it ALSO has to be reined in, possibly as the excess expenditures or charges by less than prudent/honest physicians or health care services.

Was a 'Honorable Mention' AFTER speaking of the entitlement programs. That is seeing what you expect to.



So Medicare isn't a "health care entitlement"?

Fact is, it's the biggest entitlement program out there - Social Security comes in a distant second - and both are going to hit the wall very soon (Medicare first - and that problem is many times bigger than Social Security)

Last edited by shiftless2, 12/16/2017, 5:57 pm
12/16/2017, 5:55 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


So Ryan is correct in saying that we have to find a way to control Medicare spending.
12/16/2017, 6:02 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

So Ryan is correct in saying that we have to find a way to control Medicare spending.



He's right but I can't imagine any politician being willing to touch either Social Security or Medicare - they're the third rail of American politics and cutting either of them back is pretty much the kiss of death for anyone's political career.

And the problem is an order of magnitude beyond what people seem to think it is. The combined funding shortfall for Social Security and Medicare is well in excess of $120 Trillion (yes, that is with a "T") - to put that in perspective the total value of all real property in the US is in the order of $50 Trillion.

This article is a few years old but the situation has only become worse since then

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12/16/2017, 6:07 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


A cut is spending doesn't have to mean a cut in services, though. But you're correct, that politicians won't touch Medicare, which proves John's posting to just be fearmongering.
12/16/2017, 6:11 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


John Who?
12/16/2017, 6:29 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

A cut is spending doesn't have to mean a cut in services, though.



Unless you can figure out how to reduce the cost of those services the only way to cut spending is to cut them. We're already seeing doctors refusing to take new Medicare patients because reimbursement rates are too low so cutting the cost of services (as opposed to the services themselves) is not going to be easy. And I will be very surprised in any politician on either side of the aisle has any idea about how to even begin.
12/16/2017, 6:37 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


Medicare JUST AS SSI are NOT and Never Will be "Entitlements", They are savings plans just as any bank savings money drawing interest and as any Banked money Spending Plan in the current Health Care plans. You mistake the Freebies of Welfare programming with PAID for taxed income basis. As Usual.

So to put your money in stocks or into a bank is Entitlement?
12/16/2017, 7:24 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

Medicare JUST AS SSI are NOT and Never Will be "Entitlements"



Only because you dont want them to be.

what ever became of those three 'unalienable rights,' life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

thousands of American lives are cut short bu curable (or at least treatable) illnesses and many more are prohibited form pursuing happiness by either the on going financial drain of ill health or the incapacity of treatable illness
12/16/2017, 7:42 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Looking at my EOB on former private vs. medicare/secondary, the payment to MD's and facilities isn't that grossly different, since the contracts with private have those contractual write offs. What we pay for first is the overhead, then expensive drugs in speciality fields, then your MD, fourth is for their malpractice. I well know by my work that doctors overcharge, commit billing fraud and I don't feel sorry for them with that medicare/secondary check, they really are doing just fine! Most practices take 10% of medicaid patients and 10% medicare, with medicare patients the general complaint of taking that small percent unless you are a geriatrician it is not the money but the time spent with the chronically elderly ill and services they need puts on a huge time constraint in their practice with other patients. What needs to be addressed, is the cost of their education their loans are so exorbitant all they can think about is $$$$ and that they are getting screwed, no matter how much they make in a year.
12/16/2017, 7:56 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Medicare JUST AS SSI are NOT and Never Will be "Entitlements"



They are.

quote:

They are savings plans just as any bank savings money drawing interest and as any Banked money Spending Plan in the current Health Care plans.



Not quite.

First a point of trivia - the only reason that there is an employee component to those taxes is because Roosevelt insisted - since employees contribute via payroll deduction (as opposed to having it 100% paid by the employer) they actually feel it's "their" money. And in Roosevelt's words "no politician would dare touch his Social Security plan."

His logic has proven sound - people actually think they've paid for those benefits - they haven't. Not even close - contributions to those plans have been completely inadequate to fund the promised benefits - if they had been adequate we wouldn't see the $120 Trillion funding shortfall that's I referenced in my earlier post [see ]this article also linked there]

As an admittedly extreme example, consider Ida May Fuller - she was the first ever recipient of a Social Security check - during her working years she contributed a grand total of $[sign in to see URL] in tax. However she lived to be 100 and by the time of her death she had collected a total of $22,[sign in to see URL] in Social Security benefits. Hardly shows SS to be a "savings plan".

As an aside, programs like SS are incredibly long lived. The last known widow of an American Civil War veteran died in 2004 and she was receiving a pension check from the VA until the day she died. BTW - I said last "known" widow because there may be others that are still alive. And there still children of Civil War vets walking among us (and receiving monthly checks).

12/16/2017, 10:34 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Proof Shift, I presented Mine, you have NEVER presented PROOF of 'Entitlement' as to SSI Medicare. Is as I noted just savings programs where MY earned INCOME is set aside to pay for MY old age.
12/17/2017, 10:31 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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quote:

cooter50 wrote:

Proof Shift, I presented Mine, you have NEVER presented PROOF of 'Entitlement' as to SSI Medicare. Is as I noted just savings programs where MY earned INCOME is set aside to pay for MY old age.



In a "normal" pension plan that's the way things should work, at least for the plan in total. Some workers will die early before they have "used up their contributions" and others will live far longer than the projected lifespan that was used to calculate their contributions but that's okay because the "excess" cash they contribute is (supposedly) offset by the amount "saved" when plan participants die early.

Unfortunately SS doesn't quite meet those standards - contributions have been inadequate, life expectancies have increased significantly since the program was enacted, and interest rates aren't exactly stellar. [As an aside, those are the reasons that so many private pension schemes are in trouble.]

And, regardless of what you might think, there is no pool of funds marked "for Cooter" - there is simply a Trust Fund that is to be applied towards everyone's promised benefits. Social Security outflows have exceeded income for some years now and it's just a matter of time before the Trust Fund is exhausted - at that time benefits will have to be slashed or SS taxes will have to be increased (drastically).

Reality is, current benefits are being paid out of current taxes (i.e., current retirees are receiving monies contributed by today's workers). When today's workers retire their benefits will be paid by the people who are working at the time - that is, by their children and grandchildren (and great grandchildren).

Just a point of information - when SS was enacted there was roughly 16 active workers per retiree. Now there are just 3 and that's expected to fall to 2 within the next few years. You don't have to know much about pensions to see that the system has to hit the wall.



12/18/2017, 2:20 am Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Actually, shift, income for the trust fund is still exceeding expenditures, as it has for many years since the tax rates were increased, but the change to net outflow is about to be here.

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12/18/2017, 2:31 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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So still NOT proof of "Entitlement", you justified what I stated by noting Employee Payroll deductions, how does that work for welfare recipients? How does that work for those that did NOT work enough to pay into SSI or Medicare and still get to draw, THAT IS entitlement. Yet for those that input to those programs they are no different than a Provident Fund retirement plan or a Health Savings plan or putting money into a savings account. Prove that incorrect then PROVE they are entitlements.
12/18/2017, 12:42 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


Medicare is an entitlement because you are entitled to receive benefits when you reach the age of 65. There's no savings account. You simply pay into the system to help finance Medicare for those drawing it at that time.
12/18/2017, 1:24 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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"Entitlement" is just a word. Frankly, I don't care what you call things like Medicare, the bottom line is that helps people.

But if anyone thinks an 80-year-old widow should still be working so she can have health insurance, I guess they are entitled to their opinion.

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12/18/2017, 3:50 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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I like the word, The ENTITLED are those I find offensive as they feel they are under rights to have the moneys and programs gifted to them, they pay for NOTHING, they input little to nothing and they devour/waste/dispose of $$billions$$.

12/18/2017, 3:54 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


From the Times:

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12/18/2017, 3:58 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: What has this stuff got to do with taxes?


quote:

gopqed wrote:

Actually, shift, income for the trust fund is still exceeding expenditures, as it has for many years since the tax rates were increased, but the change to net outflow is about to be here.

[sign in to see URL]



I see the confusion - in your exhibit the income for the Trust Fund includes investment income - my statement referred to tax revenues.

From the SS Trustees' Report

Social Security’s Deficits are Large and Growing. Social Security will pay out $27 billion more in benefits than it will generate in tax revenue this year, and cash-flow deficits over the next decade will total $1.4 trillion. Annual deficits will grow to [sign in to see URL] percent of payroll ([sign in to see URL] percent of GDP) by 2037 and [sign in to see URL] percent of payroll ([sign in to see URL] percent of GDP) by 2091.

snip ...

With many baby boomers already in retirement and only 17 years until insolvency, time is running out to make thoughtful reforms to the program. Policymakers should act soon and put all options on the table to make Social Security solvent.

]SOURCE
12/18/2017, 7:43 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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STILL not evidence of a entitlement. Piddly poor investing basis on the part of the FED but NOT entitlement.
12/18/2017, 7:48 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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quote:

cooter50 wrote:

STILL not evidence of a entitlement. Piddly poor investing basis on the part of the FED but NOT entitlement.



If you're not "entitled" to those funds why do you think you should receive them?

BTW - tell us what the Fed should have invested in? Just how many companies do you actually think will be around in 100 years (or more) to honor the debt they issue today? And please tell us who they are.
12/18/2017, 7:52 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 


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