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John1959 Profile
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Welcome back to the Roaring ’20s.


As the article says, "Donald Trump capitalized on movement conservative rhetoric in the 2016 election by turning the party’s racist and sexist dog whistles into bullhorns, but it was his promises to protect the New Deal state by expanding health care, bringing back jobs, “draining the swamp” and reforming taxes that put him over the top.

But his promises were a con. With majority control in Congress, Republicans are scrambling to deliver a final death blow to the New Deal. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Acts slashes taxes on the very wealthy and kills regulations with the idea that rich businessmen will invest their money into the economy to support workers — the same idea that Republicans embraced in the 1920s. "


Today's Republicans seem to have the same goals as in the 1920's and seek to do away with programs like Social Security.

Whether they do this to please wealthy benefactors or because it fits their ideology makes little difference.


The Republican Tax Bill Is a Poison Pill That Kills the New Deal
Today’s Republicans would have fit right into Herbert Hoover’s administration.
[sign in to see URL]


I’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929.
Republicans are again sprinting toward an economic cliff.
[url][sign in to see URL]

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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/9/2017, 3:28 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Re: Welcome back to the Roaring ’20s.


Who is proposing to do away with Social Security?
12/9/2017, 4:55 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: Welcome back to the Roaring ’20s.


First, Republicans want tax cuts. Next, they’ll try gutting Medicare and Social Security.
They’ve played this game before.

By Bruce Bartlett November 16
Bruce Bartlett was a domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan. He is the author of “The Truth Matters: A Citizen’s Guide to Separating Facts from Lies and Stopping Fake News in Its Tracks.”

...for decades, conservative intellectuals have pushed for big tax cuts; less to grow the economy and more because they want to “starve the beast.” They want to force a major overall spending cut that would be a political non-starter without first passing a tax cut that creates a deficit so large, something must be done about it. Spending cuts must be enacted, then, as they would be presented as the only way to pay for the already passed tax cut’s lost revenue.

Americans for Tax Reform, for instance, led by starve-the-beast enforcer Grover Norquist, is quite open about its goals. The organization’s infamous tax pledge attempts to ensure that budget deficits can never be reduced with higher taxes, only spending cuts. Other fiscal responsibility groups are passive allies. They care about deficits but tend to be far more concerned about slashing entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare than they are about opposing tax cuts. In practice, they ally with starve-the-beast advocates.
...

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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/9/2017, 5:12 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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That's someone trying to make a name for himself claiming that people have a nefarious plan. Who has proposed doing away with Social Security?
12/9/2017, 5:33 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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quote:

gopqed wrote:

That's someone trying to make a name for himself claiming that people have a nefarious plan. Who has proposed doing away with Social Security?



"In a videotaped interview with two Politico reporters Wednesday, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said the quiet parts out loud. Asked by interviewers Anna Palmer and Jake Sherman how to address the federal deficit, he replied: “We have to do two things. We have to generate economic growth which generates revenue, while reducing spending. That will mean instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare for the future.”

]L.A. Times Article
12/9/2017, 6:10 pm Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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It has been shown many times that far from improving the economy, lowering taxes causes a downturn.
12/9/2017, 7:24 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: Welcome back to the Roaring ’20s.


Birdy, instituting structural change does not mean doing away with either Social Securty or Medicare.

---
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Long live the Free Territory of Trieste (1947 - 1954)

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12/9/2017, 10:56 pm Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 
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Yes, I know that. Yet, it doesn't appear as though Mr. Rubio thinks that, or some others who would love to tap into those funds.
12/10/2017, 12:21 am Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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Now you're just making things up, birdcharm. Just like John.
12/10/2017, 12:46 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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I'm poor at economics but I know structural change is major, I know conservative calls SS a ponzi scheme and I know many have called for privatization.
12/10/2017, 2:00 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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I'm just asking who is proposing doing away with Social Security, as John claimed. The only name offered has been Marco Rubio, but he hasn't proposed doing away with it. The bottom line is that John's claim is just the same unfounded fearmongering offered up by Democrats for decades.
12/10/2017, 2:04 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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First, no one (that wants to get elected) is going to come out and plainly say "I'm going to end Social Security".

Second, they are not going to simply end it all at once, they will do it in steps (cutting taxes is the first step)

They have already talked about raising the retirement, some to 70, and cutting benefits.

SS (and Medicare and Medicaid and more) do not fit into today's Republican's ideology. Republicans would end the program immediately were it not for the fact most would never get reelected.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/10/2017, 2:51 am Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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Wow, John, you've really decided to board the falsehood ship. You can't back up your claims and so you're making things up.
12/10/2017, 2:55 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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I know what you are asking and I'm not so sure since republicans have spoken out that it is fear mongering. I would not be surprised if SS was "done away with" as we know it and looking at what many of the powers that be that are conservative, only hurts seniors.
12/10/2017, 2:57 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Which Republicans have spoken out and said they want to do away with Social Security?
12/10/2017, 3:00 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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quote:

gopqed wrote:

I'm just asking who is proposing doing away with Social Security, as John claimed. The only name offered has been Marco Rubio, but he hasn't proposed doing away with it. The bottom line is that John's claim is just the same unfounded fearmongering offered up by Democrats for decades.



I looked around to see if you could be right about this "unfounded fearmongering for decades" regarding some of the plans suggested for Social Security. I'm not so sure about the "unfounded" part, however.

From 2005:

Democrats have darker views of Bush's motives, saying it has been a long-standing Republican goal to dismantle the vestiges of the New Deal and the basic contract it struck between the government and its citizens. They also contend it is perfectly in keeping with everything they know about Bush that he would create the mirage of pending catastrophe to achieve that goal. "We have an Administration that falsely hypes almost every issue as a crisis," the liberal lion Edward M. Kennedy said in a speech last Wednesday, which happened to be the same day the Washington Post was reporting on its front page that the CIA had quietly given up its hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. "They did it on Iraq, and they are doing it now on Social Security."

,9171,1018030,[sign in to see URL]]Source

Last edited by birdcharm, 12/10/2017, 3:21 am
12/10/2017, 3:20 am Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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quote:

gopqed wrote:

Which Republicans have spoken out and said they want to do away with Social Security?



It is not a secret as far as I know that republicans want to privatize SS, that is doing away with the system. It would screw the poor, lower middle class and often the middle class.
12/10/2017, 3:32 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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quote:

gopqed wrote:
Which Republicans have spoken out and said they want to do away with Social Security?



Gop, first I want to say that I truly respect the 'show me the proof' approach that you take.

As I said, no Republican that wants to stay in office is going to plainly talk about doing away with SS because it's too popular among voters.

Can I quote a Republican that said he/she wants to completely eliminate SS (which is a fair question)? No, I can't.

But that doesn't mean it isn't part of their agenda. Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

“We have a welfare system that's trapping people in poverty and effectively paying people not to work. We've got to work on that.” Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.)

“We're going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit” Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.)

“You also have to bring spending under control. And not discretionary spending. That isn't the driver of our debt. The driver of our debt is the structure of Social Security and Medicare for future beneficiaries,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.)

“We're spending ourselves into bankruptcy. Now, let's just be honest about it: We're in trouble. This country is in deep debt. You don't help the poor by not solving the problems of debt, and you don't help the poor by continually pushing more and more liberal programs through.” Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah)

[url][sign in to see URL]

"the most important thing we can do with respect to the national debt, what we need to do, is obviously reform current entitlement programs for future generations.” Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas)
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So here's the thing; I'm willing to admit that I cannot definitely prove that Republicans want to do away with SS, but give me reasons why I shouldn't think they will try.

It's not just what they say it's what they do.

---
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12/10/2017, 3:31 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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"The Republicans have a three-step plan: Transfer trillions from the middle class and poorest the wealthiest → Explode the deficit → Use the ballooning deficit to trigger cuts to critical programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security."

- ]Rep. Pramila Jayapal's Video Clip
(from her Twitter page)

12/10/2017, 5:54 pm Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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This gal is really mad!


#GOPTaxScam
12/10/2017, 5:56 pm Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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quote:

Yobbo wrote:

It has been shown many times that far from improving the economy, lowering taxes causes a downturn.



Depends on which taxes are lowered. If taxes on the wealthy are lowered but not the middle and poorer classes that will not help the economy. If the taxes of folks on the lower rungs of the economic ladder are lowered that will help the economy because they will have more money to pump into it. That works extremely well with the poor because they will spend more of the money they have. In some cases just for necessities.

Politicians who begrudge the poor financial aid need to understand that not giving them that aid only hurts the economy because those folks buy things, often things that wealthy folks don't buy. It's almost like some of these politicians don't understand basic economics. Perhaps they dislike the poor so much that they don't care that what they propose will end up damaging the economy. It can even wind up hurting the wealthy they support who have investments in corporations that depend on income from people who aren't wealthy.
12/10/2017, 6:54 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Improvement when taxes on the poor are reduced only happens if the difference is made up with increased taxes on the rich.
12/10/2017, 7:05 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Republicans - at least many if not most of them - have been opposed to these "socialist" programs since the 1930's. First they were against SS;

During the 1935 debate over Social Security, Republicans likened it to slavery and dictatorship.

“Never in the history of the world has any measure been brought here so insidiously designed as to prevent business recovery, to enslave workers and to prevent any possibility of the employers providing work for the people,” said Rep. John Taber (R-NY).

“The lash of the dictator will be felt,” said Rep. Daniel Reed (R-NY), “and 25 million free American citizens will for the first time submit themselves to a fingerprint test.”

Rep. James W. Wadsworth (R-NY) cautioned that passage of Social Security would open the door to a government power “so vast, so powerful as to threaten the integrity of our institutions and to pull the pillars of the temple down upon the heads of our descendants.”


Then they were against Medicare;

“If Medicare passes into law, the consequences will be dire beyond imagining,” Reagan said. If opponents failed to scuttle it, he warned, “One of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children, and our children’s children, what it once was like in America when men were free.”

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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/10/2017, 7:39 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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quote:

Yobbo wrote:

Improvement when taxes on the poor are reduced only happens if the difference is made up with increased taxes on the rich.



Increasing the income of the poor is always going to help the economy because they spend a higher percentage of their money, often all of it.

It doesn't matter whether that is accomplished through government handouts or reduced taxes. It will always help the economy.

Whether it can make up for problems that a government deficit causes after reducing taxes on the wealthy is another question.
12/10/2017, 7:43 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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You need to offset any reductions in taxes of the poor with increases of tax on the rich. (Or more likely, removing some of loopholes that the rich keep finding and exploiting.)
12/10/2017, 8:05 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Why isn't this tax bill increasing the deficit of any concern to all the former "fiscal conservatives" ?

What changed ?
12/11/2017, 4:04 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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quote:

Geezess wrote:

Why isn't this tax bill increasing the deficit of any concern to all the former "fiscal conservatives" ?

What changed ?



Nothing changed. They fully expect it to increase the deficit. That's when they'll talk about how we need to cut spending



And therein lies the real driving force and the grand strategy behind this so-called tax reform. The House and Senate bills will both increase the deficit — the deficit about which Republicans have caterwauled for 50 years — by more than one trillion dollars! But rather than admit such rank hypocrisy, they deny that a trillion dollars will actually be added to be the deficit. The biggest dissemblers say that the resulting economic growth from tax cuts will take care of it, which is utter nonsense. The less egregious liars say that they will raise taxes if the deficit balloons, which is also nonsense. But — and here is the fine print — they say that if necessary they will cut government programs to keep the deficit under control.

That is the basic point. The object of tax reform is to create a gigantic deficit to justify ending the New Deal.

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Last edited by John1959, 12/11/2017, 5:22 pm


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“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/11/2017, 5:18 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
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I think anybody with half a brain should be very concerned about Trump's closed door meetings.

One of Trump campaign promise was that he would veto any tax-cuts to social security .

He also promised that he would not personally benefit from his proposed tax plan.

according to every nonpartisan report out there he would personally benefit by at least a billion a year.

so why wouldn't he lie about social security? His method of operations with Obamacare was to stab it in the back behind closed doors so that it would fail.

I suspect he will do the same thing with social security.
since. He's proposed taking away Obamacare expansion that helped senior with their health care bills.

  
12/11/2017, 6:41 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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A cartoon from the 1920's ... it looks as though we haven't learned some very important lessons from the past.


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12/11/2017, 7:56 pm Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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well, this proposed tax bill is already hurting my business. i have so many clients that are now afraid to purchase properties for fear that Trump will indeed crash the economy by allowing the debt level to skyrocket.

The proposed Tax cut is already a moot point with me, since it's hurting my business. It will also be a moot point to voters when he crashed the economy. McCain can't vote right now and Rubio, is trying to get help for the poor which Trump Tax plans has ignored. Do you guys think it's kind of odd, that other senators are so against helping the poor? That they aren't flinching? I do.


 

Last edited by snowpixie, 12/15/2017, 6:43 pm
12/15/2017, 6:36 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 


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