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Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


Than what has been created. This documents why so many remain on 'Welfare' programs in a short dissertation:

[url][sign in to see URL]
12/18/2017, 1:49 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


The example is such that either you tax the crap out of the working public to support he poor that cannot afford to let go of the welfare aid as is better than working income or you shut off the taxes on those levels of income and allow those poor to actually be a member of working society. Six of one half dozen the other.

At some point you reach a point of negative return on the prior and are unable to feed the latter.
12/18/2017, 3:45 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


Two important points from your article;

"...for many recipients — particularly the 'long-term' dependents — welfare clearly pays substantially more than an entry-level job."

"There is no evidence that people on welfare are lazy. Indeed, surveys of them consistently show their desire for a job. But they’re also not stupid. If you pay them more not to work than they can earn by working, many will choose not to work."


The problem as I see it isn't the government paying too much (although I'm sure there are some cases where that may be true), it's that jobs pay too little.

If people cannot live off minimum wage jobs -no matter how much they have a desire to work - then welfare becomes a good alternative.

---
“I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” - NRA president Karl T. Frederick, 1938
12/18/2017, 4:18 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
Geezess Profile
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


I'm afraid to post any disagreement with Cooter's bigoted notions.

I'll be accused of being too ... truthful, and so causing trouble for everyone.

There is how bigotry is spreading and the part that some liberals play in it.

So it goes.
12/18/2017, 4:44 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


Isn't the best answer to Cooter no answer? Who on this board do we need to convince that what he says has no basis in fact?
12/18/2017, 5:05 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


The majority of those on assistance are not receiving cash, they are the working poor on food stamps and medicaid. In my day if you worked even at a low paying job, you didn't need any assistance. We'll see how well "trickle down" works. emoticon
12/18/2017, 5:08 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


No, the best thing is counter his hate and lies, but that has been frowned upon here, giving him special rights to be negative disrespectful, and hateful in the name of civility, no less.
We all have all seen it.

So while ignoring him has merit it only works first, if everyone does it, and barring that, occasionally, as he gets bolder, like here, to both confront the lies and make it clear that, generally, as I have been doing lately, that ignoring the propaganda is a direct action, not surrender to the vileness, the misrepresentation that the self serving proclaimed "real American" present.
If no one is allowed to counter it becomes the only "real American" narrative.

So Belle, why isn't ignoring sexual abuse the best approach, too then, given that neo-Fascism and it go hand in hand ?

So given my recent treatment, should I feel free to do the right thing confronting him point by point, which is only a problem with him, because he does handle it well, or acquiesce to the fear that his style and his idle threats, here, have create you have suggested might be the best, ignoring him in a discuss group ?
Then why is his duplicitousness in him threating going away and ignoring us, then really not doing it best for all, really, given I to ignore him, but he need not be civil ?

Just asking.
12/18/2017, 6:52 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


The federal government funds 126 separate programs targeted towards low-income people, 72 of which provide either cash or in-kind benefits to individuals. (The rest fund community-wide programs for low-income neighborhoods, with no direct benefits to individuals.) State and local governments operate more welfare [sign in to see URL] course, no individual or family gets benefits from all 72 programs, but many do get aid from a number of them at any point in time.

Today, the Cato institute is releasing a new study looking at the state-by-state value of welfare for a mother with two children. In the Empire State, a family receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, public housing, utility assistance and free commodities (like milk and cheese) would have a package of benefits worth $38,004, the seventh-highest in the nation.

Congress and state legislatures should consider strengthening work requirements in welfare programs, removing exemptions and narrowing the definition of work.
While that might not sound overly generous, remember that welfare benefits aren’t taxed, while wages are. So someone in New York would have to earn more than $21 per hour to be better off than they would be on welfare. That’s more than the average statewide entry-level salary for a teacher.

Plus, going to work means added costs such as paying for child care, transportation and clothing. Not to mention that, even if it’s not a money-loser, a person moving from welfare to work will see some form of loss — namely, less time for leisure as opposed to work.

Is it any wonder, then, that, despite the work requirements included in the 1996 welfare reform, only 27.6 percent of adult welfare recipients in New York are working in unsubsidized jobs? (Another 13 percent are involved in the more broadly defined “work participation,” which includes job search, training and other things.)

Welfare is slightly more generous in Connecticut, where benefits are worth $38,761; a person leaving welfare for work would have to earn $[sign in to see URL] per hour to be better off. And in New Jersey, a worker would have to make $[sign in to see URL] to beat welfare."
From Cooter's article.

So given theses facts and how:

 "Cato scholars have consistently called for the privatization of many government services and institutions, including NASA, Social Security, the United States Postal Service, the Transportation Security Administration, public schooling, public transportation systems, and public broadcasting."

AND " The institute opposes minimum wage laws, saying that they violate the freedom of contract and thus private property rights"

How many jobs do provide those wages, and why are the conservatives, especially the large corporate employers and their Cato Institutes stooges, opposed to paying a living wage, given the your Cato Institute article pointed out is the at root of the private, but not corporate welfare issue.

So Cooter, tell us about your support for living wage regulation, please.


Re: "The federal government funds 126 separate programs targeted towards low-income people, 72 of which provide either cash or in-kind benefits to individuals."

See:

Programs and Incentives | [sign in to see URL]
[sign in to see URL]
The U.S. federal government offers a range of services and programs for companies that operate in the United States – from general workforce development and energy efficiency grants to industry-specific incentives. State, territorial, and local governments are often the primary source of specific assistance to help business ...

Government Subsidies For Business - Investopedia
[sign in to see URL]
Long before the government bailouts of certain faltering businesses, during what has come to be called The Great Recession, the U.S. government had subsidized many sectors of business vital ... Because there are so many industries receiving government assistance, this article will focus on three representative business sectors that receive subsidies: ...

Last edited by Geezess, 12/18/2017, 7:17 pm
12/18/2017, 7:04 pm Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


Really:

[url][sign in to see URL]
12/18/2017, 7:45 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
Bellelettres Profile
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


I don't know how to answer all your questions, Geezess. You said you were afraid to post any disagreement with him, so I offered you a solution. Feel free to ignore my solution, but don't criticize me for offering it.
12/18/2017, 9:39 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


 Sure “A single parent with a couple kids can easily get $35,000 a year in total benefits between the health care and the earned income credit and the FoodShare and the low-income housing and what have you. … That’s after taxes.”

— Incoming Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-Wis.), on UpFront with Mike Gousha, Nov. 30, 2014.

The representative-elect has been a longtime critic of the current welfare system."

BECAUSE that is ($ 35,000 /52/40) = $18,80/hour, or about what ALL the economic annalists, including government ones, suggest is a living wage in America.

"Some cities have a higher minimum wage than the national level, just to solve this problem. For example, the second cheapest city (again, according to Kiplinger's) is Springfield, Illinois. Here, a living wage is $[sign in to see URL]. Since the national minimum wage wasn't enough, the city raised the minimum wage to $[sign in to see URL] This is enough for a single person, but falls short for a family of four, which requires $[sign in to see URL] to cover the basic costs. Even if both parents work full-time, making a total of $[sign in to see URL], it's not enough."

[sign in to see URL]

 
12/19/2017, 12:11 am Link to this post PM Geezess Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


I don't see anyone stopping you from countering his opinion but you cannot call him a liar or stupid and vice versa. You both are welcome to your opinion, post to each other or avoid each other but everyone is allowed to express their opinion no matter how anyone else thinks or feels about it within the boundaries Rose has set out which considering posters are already aware of Rose's boundaries, they ought to respect them.
12/19/2017, 2:48 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


I haven't done a deep study, but I think when Cooter is on the board, participation picks up, and when he leaves, it falls off. Have any of you observed that?
12/19/2017, 10:52 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


No, i hadn't noticed. I like different view points.

I did however, had a problem with Rigby, when many of you didn't.


He constantly changed a thread subject into the same argument, over and over again.

Hillary is bad
U.S. is bad
Guns are good


I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a bot that was returned to Russia for adjustment.

12/20/2017, 4:16 am Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


I don't believe any bot could possibly be as creative as Rigby.
12/20/2017, 1:11 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


quote:

snowpixie wrote:

No, i hadn't noticed. I like different view points.

I did however, had a problem with Rigby, when many of you didn't.


He constantly changed a thread subject into the same argument, over and over again.

Hillary is bad
U.S. is bad
Guns are good


I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't a bot that was returned to Russia for adjustment.




You left off "insurance is bad" and "government insurance programs good"
12/20/2017, 2:27 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


This thread has become uncomfortable to read. A "Russian bot?"

I don't think that's fair treatment of a long-time poster to a board regardless of how you feel about them.

12/20/2017, 8:47 pm Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


quote:

birdcharm wrote:

This thread has become uncomfortable to read. A "Russian bot?"

I don't think that's fair treatment of a long-time poster to a board regardless of how you feel about them.




Birdcharm, For the record I like Rigby, I told you that before, when i asked if i could invite him to your board. However, he does push my limits at times. For example, he has privately emails me and talks about other board members spreading propaganda when they are just giving their opinion. Then he told me he's made deals with other members not to post in their threads if they didn't post on his threads.

Then he complains to me, that he had to post on their threads, because they were spreading propaganda which he said, they promised not to do.

I don't expect you to follow this, but that is exactly what happened, and why Rigby is taking some time off.

I hope he returns, when he no longer believes people are spreading propaganda. Frankly, i don't want him to return until he realizes that people are just expressing their opinion not propaganda.

Last edited by snowpixie, 12/21/2017, 2:23 am
12/21/2017, 2:22 am Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


quote:

snowpixie wrote:
Birdcharm, For the record I like Rigby, I told you that before, when i asked if i could invite him to your board. However, he does push my limits at times. For example, he has privately emails me and talks about other board members spreading propaganda when they are just giving their opinion. Then he told me he's made deals with other members not to post in their threads if they didn't post on his threads.

Then he complains to me, that he had to post on their threads, because they were spreading propaganda which he said, they promised not to do.

I don't expect you to follow this, but that is exactly what happened, and why Rigby is taking some time off.

I hope he returns, when he no longer believes people are spreading propaganda. Frankly, i don't want him to return until he realizes that people are just expressing their opinion not propaganda.



I'd be foolish to argue with a SnowPixie on the first day of winter!

I must say though, thinking of inviting someone to a board where there is an active & fiery member such as Brad really isn't giving them a gift of love, lol. Your thought of such an invite would have been a couple of years ago, but it would have made no sense, as Rigby had a much nicer board right here in which he was an active member.

As for what anyone here believes to be propaganda or not, I know that there are a lot of stories in constant circulation in our mainstream news media which is highly questionable to many people. I see that you "don't want him to return" until he does or doesn't do something, others may feel the same way you do; however, I'm not sure about making comments about him when he's not here, it just doesn't seem right to me.

12/22/2017, 4:22 am Link to this post PM birdcharm Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


It may not be but neither is gossiping about your own family. I haven't seen anyone here be "fiery" they are jalapenos compared to habanaros, unless you want to find a recipe or knitting advice board, for a political board I haven't found tamer.
12/22/2017, 4:37 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Ceasing taxes on low income levels would be no worse


quote:

birdcharm wrote:

quote:

snowpixie wrote:
Birdcharm, For the record I like Rigby, I told you that before, when i asked if i could invite him to your board. However, he does push my limits at times. For example, he has privately emails me and talks about other board members spreading propaganda when they are just giving their opinion. Then he told me he's made deals with other members not to post in their threads if they didn't post on his threads.

Then he complains to me, that he had to post on their threads, because they were spreading propaganda which he said, they promised not to do.

I don't expect you to follow this, but that is exactly what happened, and why Rigby is taking some time off.

I hope he returns, when he no longer believes people are spreading propaganda. Frankly, i don't want him to return until he realizes that people are just expressing their opinion not propaganda.



I'd be foolish to argue with a SnowPixie on the first day of winter!

I must say though, thinking of inviting someone to a board where there is an active & fiery member such as Brad really isn't giving them a gift of love, lol. Your thought of such an invite would have been a couple of years ago, but it would have made no sense, as Rigby had a much nicer board right here in which he was an active member.

As for what anyone here believes to be propaganda or not, I know that there are a lot of stories in constant circulation in our mainstream news media which is highly questionable to many people. I see that you "don't want him to return" until he does or doesn't do something, others may feel the same way you do; however, I'm not sure about making comments about him when he's not here, it just doesn't seem right to me.




Well at the time, he was taking a break from this board. i thought he would be a good fit on your board. mamasin thought otherwise. So end of story.

 carry on.
12/22/2017, 6:53 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 


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