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Philer Profile
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

I disagree, she had malice in her heart because she was running a pill mill.-snowpixie



If a doctor believes that patients are responsible for taking their medications according to directions and that those medications can be safely used if those directions are followed how is she demonstrating malice by "running a pill mill?"

You can bet that she didn't want her patients overdosing even if her main goal was making a profit. There is no evidence of malice on her part. She wasn't out to hurt her patients. Why would she have been?

quote:

Dr. Tseng was notified by authorities each time 12 of her patients O.D. She received countless phone calls from her patients’ families, begging her to stop over-prescribing their loved ones. Many testified against her in court.



What exactly is over-prescribing? Sounds more like an imaginary crime than a real one. You should realize that even if she prescribed just a standard prescription of 30 narcotic pills at a time to any patient that they could overdose on that amount. Prescribing many more than that isn't going to make any difference.

Patients could also experience extremely serious complications if they mixed relatively small doses of narcotics with other drugs including alcohol. This information is not kept secret from patients. It has to be up to them to make sure they use those drugs safely.

And the families of overdose victims want to find someone to blame other than their relatives. An understandable thing for someone in their position to do but it doesn't make the doctor a murderer even if they did testify in court against her.

quote:

Dr. Tseng prescribed exorbitant amounts of painkillers 27,000 prescriptions in just three-year, that's 75 prescriptions a day.
How responsible is that? She was also convicted of illegally writing prescriptions for two of the deceased patients and 16 other people, including two undercover agents who were investigating how easily she prescribed addictive pain pills after brief office visits. She was acquitted of illegally writing a hydrocodone prescription to a third undercover officer.



She may have prescribed narcotics to some people who didn't need them but even if she did that doesn't make her a murderer. And sometimes it's difficult to know whether someone needs a narcotic or not. Some people lie about pain that they are allegedly experiencing and there is no test for pain.

Making a lot of money by prescribing to a lot of people doesn't make her a murderer either. People who receive these drugs are still responsible for seeing to it that they use them safely.

quote:

Dr.'s are now on notice, that they cannot run pill mills without consequences.



Yeah, they are on notice that they may become the victims of a justice system that has gone haywire in its crusade against "murderous" doctors. Of course they are only murderous in the imaginations of the crusaders.

quote:

I think what you are missing, is that those exorbitantly high prescriptions rate she's filling, has turned people into addicts. when you say if she cuts them off, they will turn to illegal methods.



Prescriptions for narcotics don't turn anyone into an addict.

quote:

That's like putting the cart before the horse she's not suppose to subscribe medicine that gets them addicted in the first place.



Then bartenders and liquor stores shouldn't be dispensing alcohol that gets people addicted in the first place but I don't see any folks in those professions being locked up for murder.
12/22/2017, 9:29 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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she was prescribing to addicts - addicts are unable to control their intake - that why they are addicts!-mais



Are you seriously trying to claim that if a doctor gives an addict a prescription for 30 oxycodone pills that they will have to take all 30 of them at the same time? That they have no control over the number of pills that they take?

Or that they can't take just enough to prevent withdrawal symptoms or to give themselves a mild high?

quote:

addicts in the UK who are taking prescribed heroin get a daily prescription which must be taken in the presence of a doctor/ pharmacist.



I'd like to see that sort of approach taken here as an emergency step to prevent the overdoses on fentanyl laced heroin. I suspect it would save a lot of lives.

quote:

you cannot trust an addict to control their intake



It's up to them. It's certainly possible for them to control it when they know the facts and what amount will produce the high they are looking for. As well as the dose levels of the drugs they have. Why should they take a lot more than what will give them that high? The results if they do won't be what they want unless they are suicidal.

quote:

That is errant nonsense, to give an addict a weeks supply of drugs expecting him to simply maintain his dose is unbelievably dumb - an addict cannot control his intake - if he could he wouldnt be an addict!



That's one of those things that sounds more realistic than it is. Addicts can function quite well in all of their decision making once they get their fix. If they know what dose they need to get it and know exactly the dosage levels of the drugs they have there is no reason for them to take more than they need to take to get that fix.

They want to get high. There is a dosage level that will achieve that. Once they go beyond that dose level they aren't going to get any higher. If they don't know that their problem isn't that they are an addict. It's a lack of knowledge. They don't know the drug they are taking as well as they think they do.

quote:

so (in your theory) this 'doctor' should have had no over dosing patients and yet...



No, my view is that people need to know what they are doing when they use narcotics and when they do, they will be very unlikely to overdose. That won't guarantee anything but it makes an overdose less likely than when they are buying black market heroin on the street.

quote:

It is at least as possible that she created addicts by avaricious style of doctoring.



Nonsense. Prescribing narcotics doesn't turn anyone into an addict any more than selling liquor in a liquor store turns people into alcoholics.




 
12/22/2017, 9:53 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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shiftless2 wrote:

Without seeing the entire trial (actually just the parts that the jury was allowed to see) and/or reading the transcripts of the parts the jury was present for I don't see how anyone can be an armchair quarterback in a case like this. And then you have to take the judge's directions into account.

Personally I would have thought that something equivalent to "criminal negligence causing death" would be the appropriate charge in the first place.



Why would anyone need to read the trial transcript to know that merely prescribing narcotics to patients, even doing so excessively, would not magically turn a doctor into a murderer? She didn't force anyone to take the drugs she prescribed at all much less to overdose on them.

There is nothing that I've read that indicates that this doctor could possibly have been guilty of second degree murder. She is simply the victim of a rogue, biased jury who viewed her as a murderer even though that makes absolutely no sense.

It's another case that shows the ineptitude of our jury system.
12/22/2017, 9:59 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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snowpixie wrote:

her lawyers are appealing the verdict,they believe she should of been charged with involuntary manslaughter.

but you are right, what you read in the news someone has taken the time to read the transcripes of the trial and make it like spark notes. definately armchair quarterbacking.

I can see both sides, and why Phil upset, and i can certainly understand family members wanting justice, or tighter rein put on Doctors who run pill mills.

However, 12 people O.D. in her care and it was business as usual, until she was charged.

I hope the verdict shakes up pill mill Dr. to change their ways.




It would be nice if the government found a way to do that other than falsely accusing a doctor of murder and getting a lame-brained jury to find her guilty of a crime she couldn't possibly be guilty of committing.
12/22/2017, 10:02 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

I can see both sides, and why Phil upset



Philer is upset because she places opiates in the same category as vitamins and sees no reason at all why they should be banned.

One of her notions is that access to pharmaceutical grade opiates would stop over dose and OD deaths - this story categorically proves that to be wrong



It would stop people from overdosing on black market heroin who couldn't get legally prescribed narcotics unless they simply preferred to use black market heroin and to take all the greater risks involved in using that.

Millions of people use legally prescribed narcotics everyday without overdosing. Do you think the percentage of heroin users in this country who don't overdose is comparable?
12/22/2017, 10:07 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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katie5445 wrote:

It doesn't matter, it is an opinion and how Philer thinks it should be instead of the factual reality of the laws.



Yes, laws which should be changed. They would be if our government was rational enough to do so.

In regard to that quality it's not exactly functioning at a high level.
12/22/2017, 10:12 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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Millions of people use legally prescribed narcotics everyday without overdosing



are you incapable of differentiating between people taking medication for illness and people taking drugs because they are addicted?


BTW according to the CDC
Nearly half of all opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid



quote:

laws which should be changed. They would be if our government was rational enough to do so.



doesnt this case PROVE categorically that giving addicts access to pharmaceutical grade opiates does not prevent over dose and death?

---
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12/22/2017, 10:29 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

Without seeing the entire trial (actually just the parts that the jury was allowed to see) and/or reading the transcripts of the parts the jury was present for I don't see how anyone can be an armchair quarterback in a case like this. And then you have to take the judge's directions into account.

Personally I would have thought that something equivalent to "criminal negligence causing death" would be the appropriate charge in the first place.



Why would anyone need to read the trial transcript to know that merely prescribing narcotics to patients, even doing so excessively, would not magically turn a doctor into a murderer? She didn't force anyone to take the drugs she prescribed at all much less to overdose on them.



Do you have any idea what the jury was allowed to hear? Or what instructions they were given by the judge? Absent that it's impossible to pass judgment on the jury's verdict.
12/22/2017, 12:10 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

It doesn't matter, it is an opinion and how Philer thinks it should be instead of the factual reality of the laws.



Yes, laws which should be changed. They would be if our government was rational enough to do so.

In regard to that quality it's not exactly functioning at a high level.



First I don't consider patients who put trust in their doctors directions, dumb asses, although the younger generation is far more interested in what they put in their mouth and do with do with their bodies. Secondly most legitimate MD's do not want to be the supplier of their patient's addiction nor their death. Laws are in place to protect them as well. Doctors who don't follow the rules are not only causing addiction but are responsible for deaths in over prescribing, they do it to make money, it keeps the addict coming back where they can bill $150- to $200 for that clinic visit when they spend a minute writing that Rx then bill the insurance company. They are scum bags and doctors of death and you're suggesting a very dangerous deadly game.
12/22/2017, 7:53 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


I read today that the usual increase in life expectancy in the US has stalled and the use (over use) of prescription opiates is being blamed

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12/22/2017, 8:27 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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