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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

are you incapable of differentiating between people taking medication for illness and people taking drugs because they are addicted?-mais



No, but I see no reason to do that. As I've pointed out, everyone who uses narcotics is responsible for using them safely. Addiction changes nothing.

quote:

BTW according to the CDC
Nearly half of all opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid



And how many millions more people use prescription narcotics? The percentage rate of reckless and fatal use is much lower among that group than the ones who use black market narcotics.

Also, as I've pointed out, the people who use those prescription narcotics don't necessarily limit their drug use to those narcotics. A percentage sometimes mix them with other drugs that can make narcotic use more dangerous. Drugs like alcohol and anti-depressants.

For example, some celebrities have died due to mixing narcotics with other depressant drugs. Should we blame the narcotics rather than those other drugs? Or the users? If so, why?

quote:

doesnt this case PROVE categorically that giving addicts access to pharmaceutical grade opiates does not prevent over dose and death?



It only shows that it won't prevent everyone, including careless users, from overdosing. It doesn't prove that it isn't much safer to use prescription narcotics than it is to use illegal black market narcotics.

12/22/2017, 10:28 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

Without seeing the entire trial (actually just the parts that the jury was allowed to see) and/or reading the transcripts of the parts the jury was present for I don't see how anyone can be an armchair quarterback in a case like this. And then you have to take the judge's directions into account.

Personally I would have thought that something equivalent to "criminal negligence causing death" would be the appropriate charge in the first place.



Why would anyone need to read the trial transcript to know that merely prescribing narcotics to patients, even doing so excessively, would not magically turn a doctor into a murderer? She didn't force anyone to take the drugs she prescribed at all much less to overdose on them.



Do you have any idea what the jury was allowed to hear? Or what instructions they were given by the judge? Absent that it's impossible to pass judgment on the jury's verdict.



Nonsense. There simply is no way that this woman could have committed second degree murder by issuing a lot of prescriptions for narcotics. It doesn't matter what baloney the prosecution or the judge generated.

If it was somehow magically possible then on any occasion when someone sells a gun to someone who then commits murder the gun seller is also guilty of murder.

In reality the doctor can't be guilty of murder because the person who receives the narcotics is responsible for their use, not the doctor.
12/22/2017, 10:47 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

It doesn't matter, it is an opinion and how Philer thinks it should be instead of the factual reality of the laws.



Yes, laws which should be changed. They would be if our government was rational enough to do so.

In regard to that quality it's not exactly functioning at a high level.



First I don't consider patients who put trust in their doctors directions, dumb asses, although the younger generation is far more interested in what they put in their mouth and do with do with their bodies. Secondly most legitimate MD's do not want to be the supplier of their patient's addiction nor their death. Laws are in place to protect them as well. Doctors who don't follow the rules are not only causing addiction but are responsible for deaths in over prescribing, they do it to make money, it keeps the addict coming back where they can bill $150- to $200 for that clinic visit when they spend a minute writing that Rx then bill the insurance company. They are scum bags and doctors of death and you're suggesting a very dangerous deadly game.



Would you prefer those addicted to narcotics being cut off and then turning to the black market? That has resulted in lots of people overdosing on heroin or heroin mixed with fentanyl, a much more powerful and dangerous narcotic.

As I said, this "murderous" doctor may have saved lives by keeping addicts from turning to that dangerous black market. And for doing that she is rewarded by the government by being falsely accused of murder and railroaded into prison to serve a 30 year sentence. Ludicrous.

12/22/2017, 10:52 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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Would you prefer those addicted to narcotics being cut off and then turning to the black market?



I would prefer that they didnt take heroin


quote:

As I said, this "murderous" doctor may have saved lives by keeping addicts from turning to that dangerous black market.



you have no way of knowing if she saved a single life - but she DID assist in the deaths of at least three

---
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12/22/2017, 10:55 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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I would prefer that they didnt take heroin-mais



And I would prefer that people not smoke or drink alcohol but it's not really my business if they choose to do so.

People have the same right to use heroin that they have to use any other drug, including alcohol, for the purpose of eliminating pain or getting high.

quote:

you have no way of knowing if she saved a single life - but she DID assist in the deaths of at least three



True, I have no way of knowing that but it certainly is likely since using prescription narcotics is safer than using black market drugs like heroin or even worse, heroin mixed with fentanyl.
12/22/2017, 11:08 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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People have the same right to use heroin that they have to use any other drug, including alcohol, for the purpose of eliminating pain or getting high.



I differentiate between use (for intractable pain) and abuse(to get high) if you abuse opiates Im afraid I have little sympathy (I dont have much for alcoholics or smokers either)

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12/23/2017, 12:03 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

I would prefer that they didnt take heroin-mais



And I would prefer that people not smoke or drink alcohol but it's not really my business if they choose to do so.

People have the same right to use heroin that they have to use any other drug, including alcohol, for the purpose of eliminating pain or getting high.

quote:

you have no way of knowing if she saved a single life - but she DID assist in the deaths of at least three



True, I have no way of knowing that but it certainly is likely since using prescription narcotics is safer than using black market drugs like heroin or even worse, heroin mixed with fentanyl.



We have methadone and suboxone programs in this country, thousands and thousands are on them, that is what other countries use for addicts, few persons are accepted in heroin programs and no country prescribes oxy's either.
12/23/2017, 8:33 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

Do you have any idea what the jury was allowed to hear? Or what instructions they were given by the judge? Absent that it's impossible to pass judgment on the jury's verdict.



Nonsense. There simply is no way that this woman could have committed second degree murder by issuing a lot of prescriptions for narcotics. It doesn't matter what baloney the prosecution or the judge generated.



So you're saying that it doesn't matter what happened in the courtroom, what evidence was presented, or what instructions the jury was given? All that matters is they arrived at a decision you don't like?
12/23/2017, 3:08 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

are you incapable of differentiating between people taking medication for illness and people taking drugs because they are addicted?-mais



No, but I see no reason to do that. As I've pointed out, everyone who uses narcotics is responsible for using them safely. Addiction changes nothing.

quote:

BTW according to the CDC
Nearly half of all opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid



And how many millions more people use prescription narcotics? The percentage rate of reckless and fatal use is much lower among that group than the ones who use black market narcotics.

Also, as I've pointed out, the people who use those prescription narcotics don't necessarily limit their drug use to those narcotics. A percentage sometimes mix them with other drugs that can make narcotic use more dangerous. Drugs like alcohol and anti-depressants.

For example, some celebrities have died due to mixing narcotics with other depressant drugs. Should we blame the narcotics rather than those other drugs? Or the users? If so, why?

quote:

doesnt this case PROVE categorically that giving addicts access to pharmaceutical grade opiates does not prevent over dose and death?



It only shows that it won't prevent everyone, including careless users, from overdosing. It doesn't prove that it isn't much safer to use prescription narcotics than it is to use illegal black market narcotics.




First I have never met an addict that sticks to one drug legal or illegal, they have their first choice but will take most anything else. Back in 2000 I read an article in the New England Journal of medicine, MD's were already getting concerned about the overuse of their prescribed pain meds, the rate then was 1-2%. His warning was it will increase and those who aren't addicts will severely suffer and they are. The rate is at 10-12% now with legitimates being cut off. My 69 y.o. cousin just broke her elbow, her ortho who has done many major surgeries on her over years, refused pain meds and she has absolutely no history of abuse. There is where my concern lies. This country has a terrible history of trying to right a wrong and making it worse. As I said, there is much available treatment for addicts who want to stop, methadone or suboxone. What is the person in chronic pain, post op or an accident/injury supposed to do, the suggestion is pop some ibuprofen, right.
12/24/2017, 1:00 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

People have the same right to use heroin that they have to use any other drug, including alcohol, for the purpose of eliminating pain or getting high.



I differentiate between use (for intractable pain) and abuse(to get high) if you abuse opiates Im afraid I have little sympathy (I dont have much for alcoholics or smokers either)



It's not all that important to have sympathy for people who use drugs to get high but it is important to recognize that they have a right to use narcotics for that purpose as much as they have a right to smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. When people don't recognize that that's when we get idiotic efforts like our "war on drugs" which results in people being harassed by the police and imprisoned when they haven't done anything that is morally wrong.

  

12/24/2017, 4:52 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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