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katie5445 Profile
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


It was three patients, ten years a person. Pill mill doctors MAKE people addicted to get $$$, that in itself is a crime and a crime against humanity. This person wasn't trying to help anyone, she didn't give a rat's behind if they were addicted or died, it was pure greed.
12/26/2017, 2:23 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

It was three patients, ten years a person. Pill mill doctors MAKE people addicted to get $$$, that in itself is a crime and a crime against humanity. This person wasn't trying to help anyone, she didn't give a rat's behind if they were addicted or died, it was pure greed.



Are the people in the business of selling motorcycles doing it not to make money? Are the people who sell guns not doing it to make money? They certainly mark up the prices a lot not to qualify as a bit greedy. And what about all the people selling booze? Are they doing it as a public service to people whom they care a lot about? But not to make money?

People get killed everyday in this country due to all three of those things being sold and used by the people who bought them and I suspect few of the sellers quit the business of selling them due to sorrow over the loss of those lives. They just keep right on selling dangerous things which contribute to people being killed. People who easily may have survived without those things being sold to them.

The big difference is that none of those folks go to prison for 30 years with no chance of parole after being convicted by an idiot jury of second degree murder.

Last edited by Philer, 12/26/2017, 3:03 am
12/26/2017, 2:59 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


You are missing the point that persons who go through a decade plus of medical schooling, do not distribute booze, do not sell motorcycles or guns, they are there to heal. This person wasn't helping addicts to maintain or have a life as in your expectation of 'helping' addicts maintain. This person was addicting persons, keeping persons addicted for money and played a dangerous game till 3 people died. You see that as okay, I don't.
12/26/2017, 3:37 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

You are missing the point that persons who go through a decade plus of medical schooling, do not distribute booze, do not sell motorcycles or guns, they are there to heal. This person wasn't helping addicts to maintain or have a life as in your expectation of 'helping' addicts maintain. This person was addicting persons, keeping persons addicted for money and played a dangerous game till 3 people died. You see that as okay, I don't.



It's not that I see it as OK, katie. I just don't believe it to be second degree murder when that isn't possible. People overdosing on drugs that they administer to themselves doesn't qualify as second degree murder. The dumb, biased jury in this case convicted a woman of second degree murder when no murder had taken place!

Remember Conrad Murry, Michael Jackson's physician? He personally administered a fatal dose of a very dangerous drug called propofol to Jackson without taking adequate precautions and he was only convicted of involuntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to four years in prison and only served two. This doctor received a 30 year sentence with no parole. Does that really sound fair to you?

If the doctor in this case is guilty of second degree murder what about all the other fatal prescription drug overdoses that have occurred? Is someone guilty of second degree murder in every one of those cases? If not, why not? The same sort of scenario took place. Someone obtained the drugs using a prescription and didn't use them carefully and according to instructions. In many cases they probably mixed them with other depressant drugs or alcohol as at least one of these patients did.

And what about all those patients who fatally overdosed who had been abruptly cut off from narcotics by doctors after they had prescribed them? Patients who then turned to the black market because they were addicted? Isn't that a little cruel to cut people off from a drug that they are addicted to, knowing that they're liable to turn to the dangerous black market to get relief? In those cases the doctors were at least as much to blame for the overdoses as this doctor was. Why aren't any of them being charged with second degree murder?

Sounds like the authorities are really slacking off on the job of rounding up all the second degree murderers who are running around loose.

Do you want the authorities to start rounding up all the doctors who played any role at all in people being addicted to narcotics who then overdosed? That would be a lot of doctors.


 

12/26/2017, 7:10 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

i am probably wasting my time, but, i feel like i should reply.

she was found guilty of illegally prescribing medicine not once but twice to two of the patients who O.D. STOP IGNORING THAT. That's a pill mill Dr. I don't care if you think heroin should be legalized to excuse everybody accountability. There are laws in this country for a [sign in to see URL]



I have no problem with her being found guilty of illegally prescribing medicine. What I have a problem with is her being found guilty of three counts of second degree murder, a crime she couldn't possibly be guilty of committing.

Our laws are certainly there for a reason but the second degree murder laws shouldn't be used to put away people who didn't violate those laws whom we don't like but want to see locked up for a longer period of time.

quote:

There are lines that are drawn for the better good of a country, in order to protect it's citizens. If you don't like our laws in regard to heroin use. find a country that has no laws about heroin use, oh wait there isn't any. Now if you want to talk about how the alcohol industry is waging a smear campaign claiming marijuana is dangerous. I'm your gal, their campaign is self serving joke.



While I would like to see heroin legalized in this country to save lives by protecting people from a dangerous black market that has nothing to do with my objection to putting a woman in prison for thirty years for crimes she couldn't possibly have committed. Everybody should be outraged about that. Not just me.

The fact that neither you nor anyone else here appears to be upset about it tells me all I need to know about the likelihood that our jury system could possibly function well.

This woman obviously did not commit second degree murder and yet she is locked up in prison for 30 years on that charge with no parole thanks to an extremely biased and incompetent jury! Where's your outrage?



I'm not sure where you are getting your information about intent. Intent does not matters when people O.D.

The state she was charged in and many other states have been side stepping intent by revising and enacting new drug dealer liability laws .

These laws were aimed at punishing dealers for the overdose deaths of their clients. Known under "drug dealer liability" or "drug delivery resulting in death and drug-induced homicide laws. They have been charging people with 2nd degree murder, not manslaughter.

The good Dr. fell into the drug dealer liability laws, when she issued illegal prescriptions to her patients that O.D.


Since States passed these laws, I do not see the federal government stepping in anytime soon, to tell these states that intent matters, especially with having a drug O.D. epidemic on our hands.

   

[sign in to see URL]

for example a 2010 Tennessee Code specifies that second-degree murder could be defined in part as the "killing of another that results from the unlawful distribution of any Schedule I or Schedule II drug, when the drug is the proximate cause of the death of the user."

Crouch said since the statute was amended, there's been a "huge uptick" in drug-related homicide charges, particularly since opioid deaths have increased on a national scale.


Regarding you wanting to make heroin legal to stop people from dying on the black market.

while black market Heroin a problem according to the Centers for Disease Control, fatal drug overdoses are the leading cause of accidental death across the nation, now exceeding motor vehicle deaths in the 25-to-64 age group. Prescription opiates such as oxycodone and hydrocodone, as well as sedatives and tranquilizers, now outpace illegal drugs such as heroin and cocaine.

Last edited by snowpixie, 12/26/2017, 9:37 am
12/26/2017, 8:55 am Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


This would all relate to suicides by OD, by jumping off structures, by stepping in front of heavy machines or using any other form or device at hand, are they going to charge all those others in those conditions?

Have to consider the context of the issue, the person failed to reach the 'High' or level of intoxication they desired so added more meds until they over used or abused the materials. A doctor usually adds special instructions to scripts, the Patient fails to adhere the Doctor cannot be held liable any more than any of the above as they do NOT hold the bottle or force feed those materials to that patient.

The law in and of itself is biased toward a value it cannot control. Bad law.

As to the OP, not a bad or moronic jury, they upheld the law as was conceived and written, that IS what a jury is supposed to do.

Last edited by cooter50, 12/26/2017, 2:21 pm
12/26/2017, 2:19 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Remember Conrad Murry, Michael Jackson's physician? He personally administered a fatal dose of a very dangerous drug called propofol to Jackson without taking adequate precautions and he was only convicted of involuntary manslaughter. He was sentenced to four years in prison and only served two. This doctor received a 30 year sentence with no parole. Does that really sound fair to you?




the problem there is that Murry got away too lightly.

Your specifying that propofol is a 'very dangerous drug' almost suggests that those prescribed in this case werent 'very dangerous'

Different states , different laws, different interpretation of the same law make comparisons impossible.


quote:

Are the people in the business of selling motorcycles doing it not to make money? Are the people who sell guns not doing it to make money?



If a motorcycle manufacturer marketed a motorcycle that was unusually dangerous they would be liable for prosecution - gun makers are protected by law (!) from actions against them for producing dangerous guns (2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act )

---
HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
12/26/2017, 4:15 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


nd so Medical professionals under their own insurance for malpractice. Yet the law in TN was 'adjusted' to include prescribing or supplying quantity of meds as to applying to Murder. Bad law, bad inferences, end result bad conviction.
12/26/2017, 7:32 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

I'm not sure where you are getting your information about intent. Intent does not matters when people O.D.

The state she was charged in and many other states have been side stepping intent by revising and enacting new drug dealer liability laws .

These laws were aimed at punishing dealers for the overdose deaths of their clients. Known under "drug dealer liability" or "drug delivery resulting in death and drug-induced homicide laws. They have been charging people with 2nd degree murder, not manslaughter.

The good Dr. fell into the drug dealer liability laws, when she issued illegal prescriptions to her patients that [sign in to see URL]



Are you sure about that? I haven't found any reference to her being charged and convicted under drug dealer liability laws. In California that kind of law is apparently limited to civil liability for selling illegal controlled substances, not legal ones. Criminal charges against her would not have been possible under that sort of law.

quote:

Since States passed these laws, I do not see the federal government stepping in anytime soon, to tell these states that intent matters, especially with having a drug O.D. epidemic on our hands.



It should if states insist on doing something that is unconstitutional and violates the rights of citizens who in reality have not committed second degree murder. If we are going to allow states to start convicting doctors of murder for prescribing legal drugs after someone overdoses on them then we should start convicting gun dealers of murder for selling a gun involved in an accidental fatal shooting.
   
quote:

"for example a 2010 Tennessee Code specifies that second-degree murder could be defined in part as the "killing of another that results from the unlawful distribution of any Schedule I or Schedule II drug, when the drug is the proximate cause of the death of the user."



Guns are just as much the "proximate cause of the death of the user" in the accidental fatal shootings of users(and others as well) as drugs are when people overdose. Should the gun dealers who sold those guns go to prison for second degree murder?

quote:

Crouch said since the statute was amended, there's been a "huge uptick" in drug-related homicide charges, particularly since opioid deaths have increased on a national scale.



I don't doubt that but it doesn't mean that conviction on murder charges for selling even illegal drugs makes sense, let alone legal ones that are prescribed.

quote:

Regarding you wanting to make heroin legal to stop people from dying on the black market.

while black market Heroin a problem according to the Centers for Disease Control, fatal drug overdoses are the leading cause of accidental death across the nation, now exceeding motor vehicle deaths in the 25-to-64 age group. Prescription opiates such as oxycodone and hydrocodone, as well as sedatives and tranquilizers, now outpace illegal drugs such as heroin and cocaine.



Sure, because they are much more widely available. What the media doesn't point out is that the fatality rate is much higher among illegal drug users than those who use prescription narcotics. Millions of people use prescription narcotics safely everyday with no problem.

You're much more likely to overdose on illegal narcotics than legal ones. And even when people overdose on legal ones it is often a combination of depressant drugs that is the real problem, sometimes including alcohol.
12/27/2017, 12:09 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

This would all relate to suicides by OD, by jumping off structures, by stepping in front of heavy machines or using any other form or device at hand, are they going to charge all those others in those conditions?

Have to consider the context of the issue, the person failed to reach the 'High' or level of intoxication they desired so added more meds until they over used or abused the materials. A doctor usually adds special instructions to scripts, the Patient fails to adhere the Doctor cannot be held liable any more than any of the above as they do NOT hold the bottle or force feed those materials to that patient.

The law in and of itself is biased toward a value it cannot control. Bad law.

As to the OP, not a bad or moronic jury, they upheld the law as was conceived and written, that IS what a jury is supposed to do.



Good points except for the last one. A rational, competent jury would not convict someone based on a bad law that does not have the power to change reality.

The reality in this case is that the doctor did not commit murder. No law(or legal argument) equating prescribing medicine that can be used safely with murder in an overdose case can turn a doctor into a murderer. Laws don't have that kind of power. They can't alter reality.

12/27/2017, 12:19 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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