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Philer Profile
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

Motorcycles are already unusually dangerous compared to cars. I don't see motorcycle manufacturers or dealers going to prison for second degree murder when some motorcycle rider gets killed on one of their bikes.



you are talking about 'comparative danger' rather than 'absolute danger'.

Not that you can in any way compare selling a motorcycle with with dishing out medically unnecessary opiates to an addicted person

Although I cannot find an instance of a motorcycle manufacturer being prosecuted for making a dangerous motorcycle I can find several examples of car manufacturers being prosecuted for making dangerous cars.



Motorcycles are inherently more dangerous than cars. That's fairly obvious. And they are quite dangerous even when not being compared to cars.

That's why a comparison between selling them and prescribing opiates to an addicted person or any adult who wants to use them is a valid one. In fact, the comparison is being overly generous to the sellers of motorcycles.

That's because motorcycles can reasonably be described as being more dangerous than prescription opiates. Opiates when used according to directions are safe to use.

For example, it says right on the bottles don't use with alcohol. If you take the specified dose and don't mix them with alcohol or any other depressant drug you'll be OK.

When you are riding a motorcycle even if you are careful and follow all the rules of the road and safe motorcycle use you can easily be killed. Or seriously maimed.

The only reason why riding motorcycles doesn't result in more fatalities than drug overdoses is because far fewer people are riding them than people are using drugs. The fatality rate for motorcycle riders is very high.

Should we start sending the people who deal in them to prison?

12/29/2017, 10:27 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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Motorcycles are inherently more dangerous than cars. That's fairly obvious. And they are quite dangerous even when not being compared to cars.



Sorry but its not 'fairly obvious'

But lets suppose for the moment that what you say is correct - the death rate per mile traveled for a pedestrian/cyclist is higher than that for motorcycles.

take California 28% of deaths on the road are of pedestrians/cyclists only 15% are motorcyclists.



---
HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
12/29/2017, 11:03 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


The machine is NOT more inherently dangerous, I made note it is NOT generally the motorcycle at fault in incidents but rather the four wheel motorists that are distracted or less than engaged that make them more hazardous to be on. I do not as many of my friends do not ride as seen in Isle of Man racing or flat track motorcycle racing. We ride machines that are roughly 900 pounds weight, are seemingly LARGE and obvious yet car drivers run over the machines at a frightening rate. THAT is poor education and operation issues for automobile drivers not machine inherent design flaws.
12/29/2017, 11:07 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

Philer wrote:

Motorcycles are inherently more dangerous than cars. That's fairly obvious. And they are quite dangerous even when not being compared to cars.



The fatality rate for motorcycles is several times larger than that for cars.

quote:

According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, [sign in to see URL] cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is [sign in to see URL] per 100,000 registered motorcycles. Motorcycles also have a higher fatality rate per unit of distance travelled when compared with automobiles.

[sign in to see URL]



The article provides a significant amount of other information as well.

One thing it doesn't do is discuss the incidence of "soft tissue" injuries - when helmet laws were enacted the fatality rate dropped precipitously - that didn't mean there were fewer accidents or injuries - just that there were fewer deaths. A lot of the individuals who would have died before ended up in wheelchairs.

A couple of figures I remember from an early debate on helmet laws. Ninety-five percent of motorcycle accidents happen to people that have been riding less than five years and something like ninety percent of motorcycle accidents happen to people who have been riding less than one year.

Whether the time riding is a proxy for age or whether it's a matter of experience is up for debate. I can say that too many beginning riders start with "too much bike" - I've been riding for something like 35 years and, even at that, I'd be afraid to try many of today's superbikes.
12/30/2017, 6:42 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


Check those stats as to how many CARS were the cause or at fault in motorcycle collisions. It is NOT inherently dangerous to ride a motorcycle, it IS Inherently Dangerous to ride AMONG today's auto drivers.

You misrepresent accidents and injury as to the machine as culprit, it is but the determinant as to how bad a BAD Auto Driver can injure someone else.
I have been on dirt bikes since 1967, road bikes since 1977 and can state matter of factly that I watch like a hawk those around me as THEY ARE the problem, not my machine.
12/31/2017, 12:29 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


cooter - I think hell just froze over. I agree with you. I've been riding for well over thirty years and the only accident I've had was the result of a van pulling out in front of me. T-boned him. End result was a couple of thousand dollars damage to the bike (including new forks) and three stitches to my knee where it clipped the fairing.
12/31/2017, 1:38 am Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

Motorcycles are inherently more dangerous than cars. That's fairly obvious. And they are quite dangerous even when not being compared to cars.



Sorry but its not 'fairly obvious'

But lets suppose for the moment that what you say is correct - the death rate per mile traveled for a pedestrian/cyclist is higher than that for motorcycles.

take California 28% of deaths on the road are of pedestrians/cyclists only 15% are motorcyclists.




Then it is extremely obvious, mais. A motorcycle rider is very exposed and vulnerable compared to someone riding in a car. Add to that the fact that motorcycle riders aren't going to benefit from seat belts or air bags and they are more likely going to be subjected to serious injury if an accident occurs.

As for pedestrians and cyclists, we'd need to see what the rate of fatal injury is for those activities compared to riding a motorcycle. But even if it is comparable, you can't make walking illegal. You can make riding a motorcycle illegal.

This society would do that if it was being consistent with the "thinking" it employs in keeping heroin illegal. Not only would that reduce fatalities from motorcycle use on the road but it would greatly interfere with the illegal activities of motorcycle gangs, some of which is illegal drug activity.

It would in theory make even more sense to make motorcycles illegal because as I pointed out, even when you follow safety precautions you are very subject to being killed and injured. In the case of heroin (and other narcotics) being legal means or would mean that they can be used safely with virtually no risk to the user. The risk now in using prescription narcotics is essentially a risk generated by the user misusing the drug.

 



Last edited by Philer, 12/31/2017, 5:13 am
12/31/2017, 5:00 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

cooter50 wrote:

The machine is NOT more inherently dangerous, I made note it is NOT generally the motorcycle at fault in incidents but rather the four wheel motorists that are distracted or less than engaged that make them more hazardous to be on. I do not as many of my friends do not ride as seen in Isle of Man racing or flat track motorcycle racing. We ride machines that are roughly 900 pounds weight, are seemingly LARGE and obvious yet car drivers run over the machines at a frightening rate. THAT is poor education and operation issues for automobile drivers not machine inherent design flaws.



True. Motorcycles are not inherently more dangerous than cars or heroin. People can leave all of them alone and no danger exists. It's using any of them that involves danger.

The difference is that riding legal motorcycles on the street is still going to be very dangerous even when the user is careful while using legal heroin is going to be safe to use if the user is careful and follows directions. Or takes it in a medical facility.

(And it doesn't really matter if it is car drivers who contribute most to making it dangerous for motorcycle riders. It's still going to be very dangerous.)

If it really wants to save lives, instead of prosecuting one female doctor in California for second degree murder who wrote narcotic prescriptions this society should be working on legalizing heroin.


Last edited by Philer, 12/31/2017, 5:15 am
12/31/2017, 5:10 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


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The fatality rate for motorcycles is several times larger than that for [sign in to see URL]



Of course. That's not at all surprising considering the fact that motorcyclists are riding on a fast moving largely metal machine that can toss them through the air and into other objects.

A consistent society which bans heroin due to it being a "killer" would also ban killer motorcycles which can and do result in horrible injuries.

So, evidently the reason why heroin is banned isn't because it is an alleged killer. It's because using it is considered a sin and the government doesn't like people using it.
12/31/2017, 5:25 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: Another moronic jury demonstrates its stupidity


quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

cooter - I think hell just froze over. I agree with you. I've been riding for well over thirty years and the only accident I've had was the result of a van pulling out in front of me. T-boned him. End result was a couple of thousand dollars damage to the bike (including new forks) and three stitches to my knee where it clipped the fairing.



You and cooter have just been very careful and very lucky.
12/31/2017, 5:52 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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