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us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


 12-year-old Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser lured Payton Leutner, of the same age, into the woods and stabbed her 19 times.

Leutner did not die of her injuries
12/22/2017, 10:41 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


You really should provide more details of the story. There's a bit more information that people need to understand it.

The girl who received a 25 year sentence didn't even do the stabbing. The stabber is getting a 40 year sentence.

The key thing is that both claimed mental illness and are being sentenced to mental hospitals for treatment.
12/22/2017, 11:45 am Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Sorry I heard this on the radio this morning and didnt get all the details.

The 25 year sentence (no 40 year term is being mentioned here) is to be served in a mental institution.

My guess if that the only 'mental defect' these girls had is that they were 12 years old and involved in a fantasy life with this "Slender Man" character
12/22/2017, 12:16 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


She, her family and her attorneys claimed that she is mentally ill. Experts who examined her agreed, resulting in the sentence she received.
12/22/2017, 12:18 pm Link to this post PM gopqed Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


two mentally ill 12 year olds apparently with the same delusion in the same school class seems remarkable

I can understand the parents wanting the diagnosis as it simultaneously mitigates their daughters offense and offers some hope of a life beyond jail and expert witnesses usually say what they are being paid to say.

I would be interested in the nature of the diagnosis
12/22/2017, 12:38 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Some more information here

[sign in to see URL]
12/22/2017, 2:09 pm Link to this post PM shiftless2 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

mais oui wrote:

two mentally ill 12 year olds apparently with the same delusion in the same school class seems remarkable

I can understand the parents wanting the diagnosis as it simultaneously mitigates their daughters offense and offers some hope of a life beyond jail and expert witnesses usually say what they are being paid to say.

I would be interested in the nature of the diagnosis



It happens and then there is the issue of "mental illness" which doesn't matter if you know right from wrong, wasn't that the issue with Thompson and Venables? I've also read other cases where there were two and more involved, including in serial murders. It is amazing though how two or more persons like that meet up at the same time, same place, to commit such gross acts.
12/22/2017, 8:00 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

It happens and then there is the issue of "mental illness" which doesn't matter if you know right from wrong, wasn't that the issue with Thompson and Venables?



Where there is a child defendant there is a maxim in English law (doli incapax) which places a burden on the prosecution to prove that the defendant knows that what he did was wrong - so yes for Thompson and Venables there was in effect a capacity hearing to determine whether or not they could actually stand trial. (the trial judge was in no doubt that they could)

In these cases (regrettably we have had a few) there is usually a leader and a follower - in the case of T and V T was the leader and was by all accounts a thoroughly nasty individual - an assertion born out by his several periods of re incarceration since his initial release - V was a follower.

In the "slender man case" it would seem that there were two girls both suffering the same delusion and were equal (or nearly equal ) parties
12/22/2017, 8:25 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


I read this.

Under Thursday’s ruling, Weier will be supervised until she is 37 but may not have to spend the full 25 years in a facility. She could be released earlier, but will have to spend at least three years in a state mental health hospital.

in 3 year's she will be 18. Usually someone who's committed a crime as a Juvenal is free to go when they turn 18. So perhaps they will free her if she no longer shows signs of her mental illness.
12/23/2017, 1:43 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


From what I read she was diagnosed early onset schizophrenia, she will always be mentally ill.
12/23/2017, 8:13 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


I didn't know that was the diagnosis.

most people with that diagnosis are harmless. So this is surprising. Sometimes Psychatrics misdiagnosis and later they show no signs of the illness. However, that rarely happens. since her defense was mental illness, i'm sure they did the catz scans. very sad for everyone involved.


Last edited by snowpixie, 12/23/2017, 8:52 pm
12/23/2017, 8:51 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


It took me awhile to find it. Most are harmless, delusions make them commit gross crimes. A child is rare but it is intense and often violent. It is an extremely sad disease. MRI's can now pick up if you have bi-polar, schizophrenia, ADHD, Tourettes and differentiate between Alzheimers, vascular dementia vs. Lewy's dementia. What they are trying to do now is earlier detection and when there is more than one mental illness, it can become a bit skewed.
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

From what I read she was diagnosed early onset schizophrenia,



their (for lets remember there were two girls involved ) actions dont sound typical of Schizophrenia, the attack was highly organized and ordered.

Yes it was based on a delusion but what 12 year olds dont have delusions - its just that typically 12 year old's delusions dont involve stabbing people

Early onset Schizophrenia is quite rare to have two cases of it in teh one school class is highly exceptional
12/24/2017, 12:00 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Early onset extreme Bi-Polar disorder?
12/24/2017, 12:27 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Mary, it isn't rare, 1 in 100 people suffer from it.

what has changed, over the years Psychiatrist now have the tools to make the diagnosis easier. Katie pointed out they use MRI. Back in the day they used to diagnosis it with catz scan and written tests, they were more likely to misdiagnosis it especially in teens who had hormone issues.

some people who suffer from it, also suffer from other things like low IQ, worse some have a tendency towards violence, now that is rare to have all three, but when it happens they can be very danger to society when left untreated/undiagnosis.
12/24/2017, 2:21 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


I do not see the diagnosis as easier just easier to diagnose something and get away with it.

All too easy to label someone as having a mental issue whether they do or not to fulfill a layer of need for services rendered.

Wife went to a shrink for three years, I went for two of her last visits, had been diagnosed as 'potentially' schizophrenic or severely depressed, maybe a touch of bi-polar syndrome. The 'Doc' sat there going Umhmm, Yes, Umhmm, ahhh, and Oh Yes. Never came up with any course of treatments just more ongoing 'Research Visits' that amounted to her bank account growing. Wife stated that was all she EVER did.

Wife then went to a new OB, found she had a hormone deficiency, all better after treatments and prescriptions worked.
12/24/2017, 2:46 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

Mary, it isn't rare, 1 in 100 people suffer from it.



not according to Frontiers in Psychiatry

"Childhood onset schizophrenia (COS), on the other hand, is a relatively rare disorder, affecting 1 in 10,000–30,000 children "

even accepting the lower figure (1 in 10 000) to find TWO children so affected in the same classroom is remarkable!
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Mary, it's just as rare as finding two children from the same school trying to kill their classmate.

but you are right COS diagnosis are rare, only because children brains are not yet fully developed. making a official diagnosis unwarranted unless something like this happens. unusual brain patterns could be something else, like autism. ( 1 in 67).

btw, are we sure the second girl has been diagnosis with this mental disorder? her sentencing is in Feb, and she faces up to 40 years. Not sure if that's prison or a mental institution.
12/24/2017, 4:34 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Two under 16 years old are now to stand trial for the INTENTIONAL death of a auto passenger in MI as they had thrown a SAND BAG off an overpass into the cars windshield. These two INTENDED to do physical harm, they will pay that price.
12/27/2017, 9:37 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

From what I read she was diagnosed early onset schizophrenia,



their (for lets remember there were two girls involved ) actions dont sound typical of Schizophrenia, the attack was highly organized and ordered.

Yes it was based on a delusion but what 12 year olds dont have delusions - its just that typically 12 year old's delusions dont involve stabbing people

Early onset Schizophrenia is quite rare to have two cases of it in teh one school class is highly exceptional



Only one child was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Even off medicine they don't live 24/7 in delusion, it doesn't work that way. They have also been found to be very intelligent and analytical. I've never met any kids with it but patients as adults and I found that true.
12/27/2017, 10:01 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

Only one child was diagnosed with schizophrenia.



from wiki (usual caveats)

one of the girls has oppositional defiant disorder and schizophrenia, while the other has schizotypy and a delusional disorder.

as I understand (misunderstand?) it schizotypy is 'schizophrenia lite'
12/28/2017, 9:18 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


I can agree to the 'Defiant' part but I am seriously doubting it as a disorder while more to a discipline issue. The problem I am seeing with 'Defiant' kids these days is they have no fear of reprisal, discipline, parent/teacher/elder/authoritarian person control(s). They feel they can get away and manage to do so, with anything they want to, how are these girls any different save the severity of the incident they committed.

All the psychoanalysts psychiatrists, child rearing 'Specialists' and 'Experts' all fall back to some sort of disease and not to the problem many see at hand. Keeps them in a job.
12/28/2017, 12:24 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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You are dismissing real diseases, I'm used to it, lay people blame anything other than mental illness still in this day and age, appalling, especially parental blaming, when they don't have a clue about anyone elses lives or parenting skills.
12/28/2017, 7:08 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

Mary, it isn't rare, 1 in 100 people suffer from it.



not according to Frontiers in Psychiatry

"Childhood onset schizophrenia (COS), on the other hand, is a relatively rare disorder, affecting 1 in 10,000–30,000 children "

even accepting the lower figure (1 in 10 000) to find TWO children so affected in the same classroom is remarkable!




In taking a quick look, I see that approx. 1% of the world's population suffers from it, but that 1 in 100 may encounter an episode of it during their lifetime -- in other words, not truly a schizophrenic, but having a temporary issue with it.

I saw a couple of photos of the girls ... where are their parents in all of this? When I was twelve, I was becoming a young lady. These girls looked in complete disarray.


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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


At the ages of these girls, hormones ARE changing, their bodies ARE changing, called PUBERTY. Minds race in a hundred directions at once, the children experiencing this are possibly the most destructive, impatient and less apt to have any concentration skills. Of my opinion I state, this was NOT a Mental issue, this was a drummed up diagnosis to thwart life imprisonment for a murder by and of twelve year olds.
12/28/2017, 9:09 pm Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


You don't have the knowledge to make any diagnosis. I know what it's like to be a girl at that age, I don't need BIG letters to inform me about hormones and puberty of girls, not to mention I have worked OB and Peds and with the mentally ill. I have also been misdiagnosed but to label by an article it was "hormones?" I call that misogyny. Women/girls get rather sick of that! And why is it every time something comes up you got a co worker, in-law, wife, that has been [sign in to see URL] also note you get extremely surly when your knowledge on your job is questioned and by a person who is at least your equal if not your better.
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


This most certainly is not something that should be blamed on "hormones" -- also, I do not agree with the description of children that age.

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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


What then drives women into the rages they experience when it comes that time of month? My wife, sis(s) in law, mother in law, my own mother. Wife got on hormone therapy and cured the issues she had as to uncontrolled aggressive behavior at odd times.
Not mysoginy, chemistry.
12/29/2017, 1:53 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Believe it or not, most women do not fly into rages because it is "their time of the month" -- I never flew into one myself and I do not know of many in my experience. I would guess that it is a behavior pattern mixed with hormone fluctuation and do not believe you can discount that it is a behavior issue when it's erratic behavior that is being discussed.

It seems that the women in your life all need to involve themselves in things that bring them a sense of calm.


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Re: us court sentences 12 year old to 25 years


Me either, young girls going through puberty can have mood swings, as some women with PMS or menopause, rage to murder is not a mood swing. Rage in women is if it happens(a very small %) is in women suffering early menopause, losing hormones to early to fast. It takes little education even for your family doctor when making that visit and describing your symptoms to first draw your hormones levels!
12/29/2017, 6:50 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 


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