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Re: yet another botched execution


I agree with Rose.

It is not logical to promote things like executions and individuals owning guns and then expect to see less violence in society.

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12/10/2016, 6:53 pm Link to this post PM John1959 Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: yet another botched execution


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

I agree completely on the death penalty. It serves no purpose except to show we like to kill people. If it were shown to save lives, then it could have a purpose.-Rigby

It obviously could have saved lives. Multiple murderer Kenneth McDuff, who originally was sentenced to receive capital punishment, was saved by the Supreme Court's ruling in Furman v. Georgia. After eventually being set free he murdered twelve more people.

 
At one time we did not have secure prisons, so likely could have been justified for the defense of others, in the past. If it does not defend others, then it actually should not now actually be legal either. It was ruled illegal by the SCOTUS from 1972 to 1976, and I see no reason why is came to be considered legal once again?

I see a reason why it should have been made legal again. See above.

As far as being against guns and the death penalty both, at least you are consistent. The most hypocritical would be against guns and for the death penalty.

I disagree. The most hypocritical would be pro gun and against the death penalty.




If the experts who are supposed to be supervising those in prison think a person is still a homicidal danger, they are not supposed to let them out.
At any time they can begin proceedings to have the person committed indefinitely for psychiatric reasons.
There is no reason to consider executions as useful in defense of the rights of others anymore I think.
I think the only way it could be seen as useful in defense would be if the threat of executions prevented some people from committing serious crimes that might run the risk of execution? Doubtful if that is valid. Would need more study.



Those so-called experts have to care enough about the victims of murderers to keep their murderers behind bars and they have to be allowed to do so by the courts. McDuff killed three teenagers and yet the state of Texas saw fit to let him out of prison supposedly due to prison overcrowding. That resulted in twelve more innocent people being killed.

The notion that we can rely on those "experts" to keep the really bad guys behind bars is laughable.
12/10/2016, 7:09 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


I agree that guns are not the actual right of self defense, but there is no other means of defending yourself currently, so then guns are essentially tied to it.-Rigby

There are lots of means of defending yourself besides guns. Electric shock devices, pepper spray, knives, box cutters.

I know of one woman who defended herself using a box cutter. She killed the man who was attacking her by slashing his throat with it.

The right not to be shot or killed is the right of self defense, and that can only be enacted by ensuring gun access rights.

They are not precisely the same rights because the right to not be shot and killed includes situations where you cannot practice self-defense. For example, you have a right not to be shot and killed if you are knocked out cold and completely unable to defend yourself.

The right to not be shot and killed indicates that the right to guns is not absolute despite the right to self-defense. In many situations a person cannot defend himself with a gun from someone with a gun.

You are correct that having more guns can't protect you from accidental shootings, but clearly the statistics show over a million deliberate serious crimes are committed every years, as opposed to a couple hundred accidental shootings.

It's not just accidental shootings that can't be prevented with guns. Some intentional shootings can't be either.

Last edited by Philer, 12/10/2016, 7:36 pm
12/10/2016, 7:24 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


I would as a prison official have no problem placing a rapist or child molester or the murderer of the defenseless into general population of the worst prisons in the US. The inmates would do what most cannot stomach.-cooter50

That's what they did with Jeffrey Dahmer in Wisconsin. They didn't have the death penalty in that state but they essentially executed him anyway.
12/10/2016, 7:29 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

It is a subject I struggle with, when others seem so set. Logically I am against it and I would more than likely vote against the death penalty BUT when I see a kid kidnapped, tortured, raped, dismembered, I want them dead and I don't care how.



I have no trouble supporting capital punishment for criminals like that but leaving those types of cases to juries can lead to trouble. Jurors tend to find people guilty in such cases who may not be guilty due to the high level of emotion involved and prejudice against the defendants.

Also, I wouldn't limit capital punishment to ones who murder children. I believe in equal justice under the law. If a child murderer deserves the death penalty I see no reason why someone who kills an adult doesn't deserve it also.
12/10/2016, 7:35 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


What would you have other than a jury, I believe every human has some bias of one kind or another and I also think when people deny that they are lying or lying to themselves.
12/10/2016, 8:24 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

What would you have other than a jury, I believe every human has some bias of one kind or another and I also think when people deny that they are lying or lying to themselves.



I agree and it's one reason why our jury system is not going to function very well. You being in favor of the death penalty for a particular type of murderer and not so much murderers in general illustrates the problem. You're more emotional about that one type of murderer than the others and that could affect how you ruled if on a jury. It certainly has affected how other jurors have ruled.

As for not having a jury I would still have one but it would consist of experts who know how to evaluate evidence. Professional jurors. Probably a panel of three.
12/10/2016, 9:19 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: yet another botched execution


quote:

As for not having a jury I would still have one but it would consist of experts who know how to evaluate evidence. Professional jurors. Probably a panel of three



we used to have non jury courts - I dont think that they were any less likely to convict or acquitt capriciously than properly directed juries

If the US even used non jury courts just wait for the total shitstorm first time they arrive at an unpopular verdict!

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12/10/2016, 9:38 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

As for not having a jury I would still have one but it would consist of experts who know how to evaluate evidence. Professional jurors. Probably a panel of three



we used to have non jury courts - I dont think that they were any less likely to convict or acquitt capriciously than properly directed juries

If the US even used non jury courts just wait for the total shitstorm first time they arrive at an unpopular verdict!



I've seen that happen with our jury system although it is rare because juries usually reflect the prejudices and biases of the public at large.

Probably the best example was the Casey Anthony case. The public at large didn't like that verdict at all. So much so that Anthony needed to go into hiding.
12/10/2016, 10:41 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: yet another botched execution


I believe my beliefs in these matters are well known -- I am opposed to the death penalty, I am supportive of strengthening gun control legislation, and I am pro life with regard to abotion. All of which I view as consistent with one another. And in my mind they are not a part of a cafeteria line. And I realize those who differ with me tend to regard me as rigid and inflexible. While I view them as either inconsistent at best or hypocritical at worst. Takes all kinds I guess.

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12/10/2016, 11:50 pm Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 


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