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Philer Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


quote:

Just because they are doesnt mean that they should be!-mais



No, but we have examples of what has happened when they haven't been treated as adult murderers and released after being locked up for a very short time. Some of them have committed murders again which isn't surprising since they had already done so at a young age.

quote:

If a 16 yearolds sense of right and wrong is such that he is unable to sit on a jury and decide on the actions of others how on earth can you expect him to judge his own actions?



I don't even believe most adults are qualified to sit on a jury and judge the actions of others but I would hold them accountable if they committed a murder. I would like to see the jury system go bye bye. Many of the adults on juries are about as qualified to judge others actions as the criminal defendants who committed crimes are.

quote:

If a 16 yearold is an adult then he should have the rights and privileges of an adult - jury service, the vote, the ability to buy alcohol, run up credit and all those other adult things



He doesn't have to be an adult to be responsible for committing a murder and qualify to be treated the same as an adult who has committed a murder. Not to do so is ignoring the threat that he poses to others. Not being qualified to do other adult things that require adult level skills doesn't alter that fact.
4/3/2018, 1:02 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


quote:

I dont claim to be right I do however claim to be consistent, if a person is a child (that is not allowed to do adult things) then they are a child even on a wednesday even if they steal even if they kill someone they are still a child.-mais



I'm glad you don't claim to be right. And the fact that someone is technically a child is irrelevant. That isn't the question that needs to be answered. It's whether they were responsible for what they did. By the time someone is an adolescent they are responsible for any crime they commit unless they are mentally ill or operated by remote control.

quote:

To say that some one is a child but if they do something really bad we will treat them as adults makes absolutely no sense - does doing bad things suddenly make you an adult?



No but it doesn't have to. Them being responsible for committing a crime is all that matters.

4/3/2018, 1:08 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


quote:

No, but we have examples of what has happened when they haven't been treated as adult murderers and released after being locked up for a very short time. Some of them have committed murders again which isn't surprising since they had already done so at a young age.



Yes we have many examples - many perhaps most go on never to offend (seriously) again the remainder do re offend but perhaps the brutalization that they suffered at the hands of the 'justice system' can be blamed for at least some of that.


quote:

I would like to see the jury system go bye bye


an opinion you have expressed many times but have failed to suggest an alternative.


quote:

He doesn't have to be an adult to be responsible for committing a murder and qualify to be treated the same as an adult who has committed a murder. Not to do so is ignoring the threat that he poses to others. Not being qualified to do other adult things that require adult level skills doesn't alter that fact



I oppose every word of that!!

quote:

the fact that someone is technically a child is irrelevant.



Supposed a girl gets sexually assaulted would the fact that she was "technically a child" be irrelevant then ?

are there not laws which protect those who are "technically a child"?


quote:

It's whether they were responsible for what they did.



what do YOU mean by 'responsible'?


quote:

Them being responsible for committing a crime is all that matters.


 
and again what do YOU mean by 'responsible'?


Suppose a very young child (say 3 or 4 years of age) out playing and finds a gun picks it up points it at their friend and shoots 'bang your dead' and fire the gun killing the other child is that child 'responsible'?

they certainly pulled the trigger, they aimed, they expressed a desire to kill the other child - but the law (even in the US) says that they are not responsible.

So what do YOU mean by 'responsible'?

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4/3/2018, 10:51 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


Suppose a very young child (say 3 or 4 years of age) out playing and finds a gun picks it up points it at their friend and shoots 'bang your dead' and fire the gun killing the other child is that child 'responsible'?

No I could not hold THAT child responsible, but the thug that maliciously in complete disregard disposed of it or the parent that allowed access to it should be held accountable for placing such a weapon into the availability of that child.
4/3/2018, 11:35 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


I remember a time when minors were close to reaching adult age they'd move them up to adults. I have seen cases where there are 10,11,12 y.o. moved up to the adult category, I find it disgusting and am 100% against moving those boundaries down to such a young age. Does that mean you don't hold them "responsible" no it does not, it means you don't treat them as an adult and toss them into a court room where they have no clue what is going on and are dependent on adults around them and right now I have little encouragement in the way adults are handling most everything in government and there are plenty of citizens I'm not impressed with either. You start calling kids like David Hogg a punk, anarchist, I wouldn't want them on a jury of a child.
4/3/2018, 4:44 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
crogin Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


Quote:

"..toss them into a court room where they have no clue what is going on..."

***


That's why they have a lawyer. Adults need lawyers for the same reason.


Quote:

You start calling kids like David Hogg a punk, anarchist, I wouldn't want them on a jury of a child.

***


Of course not! Jurors are required to be impartial whether the case they are on involves children or adults. That's what "Voir Dire" is about.

Quote:

voir dire

[ˌvwär ˈdir]

NOUN

law

voir dires (plural noun) · voire dire (noun) · voire dires (plural noun)

a preliminary examination of a witness or a juror by a judge or counsel.

ORIGIN

Law French, from Old Frenchvoir‘true’ + dire‘say’.

From Oxford Dictionaries

***


BTW: Ethan Couch has been found guilty. I feel free to call someone guilty of the things he did anything I like - it's an indication of an opinion and has nothing whatsoever to do with serving on his jury. Indeed if I had been in the jury pool I would have had to recused myself.

FYI: The term 'anarchist' is totally appropriate under the circumstances. It's a good idea to find out what a word actually means before one attempts to use it





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4/3/2018, 5:32 pm Link to this post PM crogin
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


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That's why they have a lawyer. Adults need lawyers for the same reason.



they invariably get a public defender who is overworked and only very slightly better than useless!

I could post lists of cases where a public defender has had the better trained more experienced ADA run rings around them to the detriment of their client


 
quote:

That's what "Voir Dire" is about.



Voir dire other wise know as letting the prosecution pick the jury


 
quote:

I feel free to call someone guilty of the things he did anything I like



you are of course free to call him guilty of anything he was convicted of - beyond that you run the risk of him suing you for defamation.


quote:

The term 'anarchist' is totally appropriate



I fear that as with solipsism you are miss using anarchist

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4/3/2018, 6:13 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


Image

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HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
4/3/2018, 6:15 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


Image



Image

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4/3/2018, 6:17 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: 'Affluenza' Texan Ethan Couch, who killed four driving drunk, to be released from jail


quote:

Yes we have many examples - many perhaps most go on never to offend (seriously) again the remainder do re offend but perhaps the brutalization that they suffered at the hands of the 'justice system' can be blamed for at least some of that.-mais



Do you believe that a 13 year old can receive enough brutalization in a juvenile detention facility in six months that it will result in him murdering someone much later? Brian Keith Lord is a good example of what can happen when this society doesn't take the murder of a woman seriously because her killer was a juvenile. It wasn't brutalization that generated this creep.

"In 1974, at the age of 13, Lord murdered his friend's mother by shooting her in the back as she hung clothes on a clothesline. "For that crime, Lord served only six months in a juvenile detention facility and was released.

In 1986, at age 25, he was hired as a carpenter at the home of Wayne and Sharon Frye, neighbors of 16-year-old Tracy Parker. Lord subsequently became acquainted with Tracy, who often rode horses owned by the Fryes. Finding himself alone with her on the night of September 16, 1986, Lord persuaded her to get into his truck under the guise of giving her a ride home. He drove to his brother's workshop, somehow coerced her into going inside, and raped and murdered her."-wikipedia

Obviously cretins like Lord need to be kept locked up in prison after they commit one murder even if they are only 13 at the time. Not being able to legally drive a car at that age is completely irrelevant.

Last edited by Philer, 4/3/2018, 6:55 pm
4/3/2018, 6:53 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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