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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

there is nothing about being 73 or having dementia which makes you less likely to have or use a gun.

So the cop was faced with a man who was uncooperative (not a crime in itself) who a witness reported was acting 'strangely' and had a gun - OK it turned out to be a wooden cruifix but the cop couldnt have known that he was basing his actions on a good faith report that the man was armed.

so should the cop have shot him? probably not and almost certainly not 7 times.

In a society where every one has the ability and right to be armed and where a person is reported to be armed then treating them as armed doesnt seem too unreasonable.
the question then becomes how do you deal with someone who is reported to be armed, is uncooperative and who is acting in a sufficiently strange manner to have a member of the public alert the police to his actions?



There are plenty of reasons a person shouldn't have a gun with dementia, after all Rigby the man is dead, there is one very good reason right there.
12/15/2016, 2:40 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

mais oui wrote:

there is nothing about being 73 or having dementia which makes you less likely to have or use a gun.

So the cop was faced with a man who was uncooperative (not a crime in itself) who a witness reported was acting 'strangely' and had a gun - OK it turned out to be a wooden cruifix but the cop couldnt have known that he was basing his actions on a good faith report that the man was armed.

so should the cop have shot him? probably not and almost certainly not 7 times.

In a society where every one has the ability and right to be armed and where a person is reported to be armed then treating them as armed doesnt seem too unreasonable.
the question then becomes how do you deal with someone who is reported to be armed, is uncooperative and who is acting in a sufficiently strange manner to have a member of the public alert the police to his actions?



There are plenty of reasons a person shouldn't have a gun with dementia, after all Rigby the man is dead, there is one very good reason right there.




Why address this post to me, since it clearly is mais oui who wrote it and you are quoting?

Whether the man had dementia, was 73, had a gun, etc., is not relevant.
The point is there was no reason to shoot or justify defensive use of force.
No one else could have done this can gotten away with it.
Why is it we allow the police to continually break the law?
12/15/2016, 2:52 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


Sorry, made a mistake but it is no gun, no death. The ER deals with the mentally ill all the time and we don't shoot patients. Cops that are not skilled in dealing with mental conditions should not be responding.
12/15/2016, 3:04 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

Sorry, made a mistake but it is no gun, no death. The ER deals with the mentally ill all the time and we don't shoot patients. Cops that are not skilled in dealing with mental conditions should not be responding.



I't now sure what cops are skilled in handling except raising revenue for the government.
They shoot way too many people.
12/15/2016, 5:18 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

There are plenty of reasons a person shouldn't have a gun with dementia



very true, no argument from me but there, are also (unfortunately) many reasons why some one with dementia will have a gun.

 
quote:

The ER deals with the mentally ill all the time and we don't shoot patients.



If a deranged person presents at ER with a gun what do you do? my guess would be that you call the police - you dont shoot him the police do on your behalf


quote:

No one else could have done this can gotten away with it.



No one else could shoot an unarmed man and get away with it?

Rigby either you have serious memory problems or you are being dishonest.

I have posted several cases where unarmed men have been shot by civilians citing a self defence defense and they didnt even see the inside of a court room

do you want to see some of them again?

Darrel Niles was sat in his car when home owner Shannon Scot shot him because his mistakenly thought Niles was one of the girls which had allegedly threated his daughter earlier - no charges

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2457913/South-Carolina-man-shot-unarmed-teenager-dead-NOT-face-trial.html

72 year old Ronald Westbrooke who had dementia was lost and confused when he beat on the door of a house he had previously lived in - he was shot dead by the home owner - no charges

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wandering-man-alzheimer-mistaken-burglar-shot-killed-article-1.1532714

and then there are the many many cases where family members and legitimate visitors are mistaken for attackers and are shot by the homeowner - no charges

your "no one else would get away with it" is starting to look a bit weak!


Why is it we allow the police to continually break the law

For the exact same reasons that every one else is allowed to "break the law" - although in reality no laws are being broken




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12/15/2016, 11:00 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

There are plenty of reasons a person shouldn't have a gun with dementia



very true, no argument from me but there, are also (unfortunately) many reasons why some one with dementia will have a gun.

 
quote:

The ER deals with the mentally ill all the time and we don't shoot patients.



If a deranged person presents at ER with a gun what do you do? my guess would be that you call the police - you dont shoot him the police do on your behalf


quote:

No one else could have done this can gotten away with it.



No one else could shoot an unarmed man and get away with it?

Rigby either you have serious memory problems or you are being dishonest.

I have posted several cases where unarmed men have been shot by civilians citing a self defence defense and they didnt even see the inside of a court room

do you want to see some of them again?

Darrel Niles was sat in his car when home owner Shannon Scot shot him because his mistakenly thought Niles was one of the girls which had allegedly threated his daughter earlier - no charges

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2457913/South-Carolina-man-shot-unarmed-teenager-dead-NOT-face-trial.html

72 year old Ronald Westbrooke who had dementia was lost and confused when he beat on the door of a house he had previously lived in - he was shot dead by the home owner - no charges

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wandering-man-alzheimer-mistaken-burglar-shot-killed-article-1.1532714

and then there are the many many cases where family members and legitimate visitors are mistaken for attackers and are shot by the homeowner - no charges

your "no one else would get away with it" is starting to look a bit weak!


Why is it we allow the police to continually break the law

For the exact same reasons that every one else is allowed to "break the law" - although in reality no laws are being broken






No, none of your examples are valid.
There were real threats.
Shots had been fired.
The only problem is the threat was someone else.
A case of mistaken identity is not the same as the police shooting when there had never been any threat at all.
12/15/2016, 1:43 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

No, none of your examples are valid.
There were real threats



Explain to me in simple terms how Darrel Niles who was unarmed, sat peacefully in his car, had done nothing and had no intention of doing anything was a threat to any one.

when you have done that you can start on how the unarmed (and never reported to have been armed)Ronald Westbrooke who was the same age (give or take) as the unfortunate Mr Serna and like Mr Serna he was demented and acting strangely posed a "real threat"



quote:

A case of mistaken identity is not the same as the police shooting when there had never been any threat at all.



so if you feel threatened you are at liberty to blast away at any one you see?

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12/15/2016, 3:15 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


some details not in the earlier report

Earlier in the day, another neighbor had encountered Serna, whose hand was in his jacket pocket as though he had a gun. Serna tried to force his way into the house of the neighbor, who called his behavior "bizarre." Serna left and the neighbor, who had recognized him, did not immediately report the incident



about eight hours later, the woman who lives across the street from Serna was getting out of a car in her driveway when he came up behind her and asked her to get back into the car. The woman also saw Serna's hand in his jacket pocket and thought he had a gun.


The phone call to the police was made by the boyfriend of the woman Serna tried to force back into the car and it was he that said that Serna was "brandishing a weapon"

the orginal story said he was acting strange sorry this goes W_A_Y beyond strange!

First he tries to force his way into a house - luckily the home owner recognised him or he could have wound up dead right there, then hours later (and where was he and what was he doing in this time?) he is apparently armed and telling a woman to get into a car, again he is very lucky that he didnt end up dead right there but his luck eventually ran out.

I dont approve of shooting people not even in this case but in this case the surprise isnt that he was shot its that he wasnt shot sooner



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12/15/2016, 4:56 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

No, none of your examples are valid.
There were real threats



Explain to me in simple terms how Darrel Niles who was unarmed, sat peacefully in his car, had done nothing and had no intention of doing anything was a threat to any one.

when you have done that you can start on how the unarmed (and never reported to have been armed)Ronald Westbrooke who was the same age (give or take) as the unfortunate Mr Serna and like Mr Serna he was demented and acting strangely posed a "real threat"



quote:

A case of mistaken identity is not the same as the police shooting when there had never been any threat at all.



so if you feel threatened you are at liberty to blast away at any one you see?




I read the article.
An almost identical vehicle with similar passengers has just fired a dozen shots into the house, so it was reasonable for the home owner to assume they were coming back for a second pass.
Just an odd coincidence.

And no, feeling threatened is not enough.
You have to have proof the threat is real and imminent, giving you no choice.
12/15/2016, 9:24 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police kill 73 year old man with dementia:


quote:

An almost identical vehicle with similar passengers has just fired a dozen shots into the house



Sorry no sale, Niles did nothing had no intentions of doing anything and was unarmed.

Also the car with the girls in which threatened his daughter and fired shot AT but not INTO his house was an SUV Niles car a 92 Honda Accord? Not so "almost identical"
So far as I can find the only person that reported shots was Scott no strike marks were ever found

Wasnt it you that said
quote:

No one has any legal authority to kill someone else because they MIGHT start killing others



Well Niles had no intention of killing any one but he is dead and his killer got way free

the police acted on a report (actually two reports but lets not split hairs) that Serna was armed - he wasnt - Scott mistook a car with two males occupants for a SUV 'full' of girls you excuse Scott but not the police?

Last edited by mais oui, 12/15/2016, 10:15 pm


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12/15/2016, 10:14 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 


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