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Philer Profile
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"If guns kill people...."


"If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons make people fat."-"Bill Murray"

And if heroin kills people, guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk and spoons make people fat.

The only difference is that this society blames heroin for killing people. Which means that whether something actually kills someone or not has nothing to do with how this society views it.

It's just a matter of how it feels about it. It likes guns but doesn't care as much about heroin.

12/8/2018, 8:57 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
crogin Profile
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FALSE ANALOGIES


quote:

The fallacy of false analogy is an argument based on misleading, superficial, or implausible comparisons. Also known as faulty analogy, weak analogy, wrongful comparison, metaphor as argument, and analogical fallacy.


Definition and Examples of False Analogies - ThoughtCo
www.thoughtco.com/false-analogy-fallacy-1690850



---
Don't try to tell me the only way left is up.
There's always more down!

12/9/2018, 6:17 pm Link to this post PM crogin
 
Philer Profile
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Re: FALSE ANALOGIES


Heroin and guns are both inanimate things which do not kill people. Or they are both inanimate things which do kill people.

Either way it's not a false analogy. It's right on the money.

The only significant difference other than the obvious one of one being a medication while the other is a weapon is in how the two are perceived in this society. Guns are supposedly good things which play no role in generating problems while heroin is looked at as something evil which hurts people.

Those concepts are largely the result of propaganda and what people have been taught, not reality.

12/9/2018, 6:41 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: "If guns kill people...."


It is actually even more clear cut than that since obviously we deliberately go out of our way to buy guns for police and the military, absolutely proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that guns are what saves people, and are essential to individuals in a democratic republic.
There is no way to support any level of gun control without violating the 14th amendment of equal treatment under the law, and supporting a authoritarian dictatorship.
Either guns are necessary and every responsible person should have them, or you don't trust average people and only want some isolated and elite few be armed and to rule over everyone else.
Gun control == dictatorship.
There is no way around that obvious fact.
I have read some convoluted arguments attempting to claim that you can still have a democracy where people choose a social contract that concentrates all the power in the hands of a few, but to me that clearly is nonsense. Once you disarm the general public, you have a dictatorship, and the best you can hope is that it is benevolent, at least while you are alive.
But we have been over this before, and I doubt there is any point in rehashing this mob hysteria.
12/9/2018, 7:49 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: FALSE ANALOGIES


quote:

Philer wrote:

Heroin and guns are both inanimate things which do not kill people. Or they are both inanimate things which do kill people.

Either way it's not a false analogy. It's right on the money.

The only significant difference other than the obvious one of one being a medication while the other is a weapon is in how the two are perceived in this society. Guns are supposedly good things which play no role in generating problems while heroin is looked at as something evil which hurts people.

Those concepts are largely the result of propaganda and what people have been taught, not reality.




We know they are inanimate but people are not. I can't cook without food to cook either, that would cause starvation, cause and effect Philer.
12/9/2018, 10:01 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: "If guns kill people...."


If you are going to have very strict gun control I think the British model is the right one. You not only take guns away from civilians but you don't allow the police to carry them either.

The British seem to view guns in just the opposite way from the way they are viewed over here. That guns generate problems even in the hands of the police so almost nobody gets access to them.
12/9/2018, 10:05 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: FALSE ANALOGIES


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

Heroin and guns are both inanimate things which do not kill people. Or they are both inanimate things which do kill people.

Either way it's not a false analogy. It's right on the money.

The only significant difference other than the obvious one of one being a medication while the other is a weapon is in how the two are perceived in this society. Guns are supposedly good things which play no role in generating problems while heroin is looked at as something evil which hurts people.

Those concepts are largely the result of propaganda and what people have been taught, not reality.




We know they are inanimate but people are not. I can't cook without food to cook either, that would cause starvation, cause and effect Philer.



I'm not claiming that either guns or heroin can't contribute to problems in this country, katie. But it's people who are responsible when they misuse either of them.

In the case of heroin, keeping it illegal just makes the risk of using it much greater. Making guns too available to just about everyone, including criminals, also increases the risk of innocent people being harmed.

My question is if this society isn't going to worry about the risk to innocent people of too many guns in the wrong hands why is it so concerned about heroin and other opioids getting into the wrong hands? The people who overdose are the people using the narcotics, not innocent bystanders such as clerks in convenience stores and children playing.
12/9/2018, 10:16 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: "If guns kill people...."


quote:

I have read some convoluted arguments attempting to claim that you can still have a democracy where people choose a social contract that concentrates all the power in the hands of a few, but to me that clearly is nonsense. Once you disarm the general public, you have a dictatorship, and the best you can hope is that it is benevolent, at least while you are alive. -Rigby



With any government the best you can hope for is some sort of benevolent and wise quasi-dictatorship because any government that has the power to govern while holding onto power also is capable of creating problems for those who are governed. There is no good reason for a government to be malignant but that hasn't stopped a lot of them from falling into that category.

The good news is that most governments in the world have improved over time and became increasingly benevolent. Malignant religions and individuals who have put themselves first over others have been the two main factors generating bad governments.

12/9/2018, 10:26 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
msdulittle Profile
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Re: "If guns kill people...."


Once you disarm the general public, you have a dictatorship, and the best you can hope is that it is benevolent, at least while you are alive.

I agree and we all know without guns, people will find some other way to kill people. I prefer being able to protect myself.
12/9/2018, 10:42 pm Link to this post PM msdulittle Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: "If guns kill people...."


Disarm the general public, bit extreme to the point I hear very few make that claim. It isn't if countries with stricter gun regulations aren't allowed to have guns at all.
12/10/2018, 2:45 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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