Katy Perry victimized by another dumb jury https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/t4435 Runboard| Katy Perry victimized by another dumb jury en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 07:25:12 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 07:25:12 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48201,from=rss#post48201https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48201,from=rss#post48201quote:mais oui wrote: Philer may I refer you to the (great) many similar cases which did not involve a female artist? Hell some even found in favor of female artists! care to discuss the case of "Lady GaGa" vs "Rebecca Francescatti" ? (two women) I would need to hear a full version of Francescatti's Juda and compare it to GaGa's Judas. The case was decided by a judge rather than a jury and Francescatti claimed that it needed to be decided by a jury who knew something about music. It's unlikely she would have gotten that kind of jury here. Our juries seem to be largely ignorant about whatever subject matter they are dealing with. Of course that doesn't keep them from having preferences. Cases found in favor of female artists, likely a rarity, may have been based on solid evidence. I remember the case involving one of my favorite musicians, George Harrison. The "My Sweet Lord" case. It was disappointing that his hit was largely a ripoff of The Chiffon's "He's So Fine" but musicians can make honest mistakes. They remember music that they've heard. It's one of the hazards of being a musician and a songwriter to "create" something new which is really something you've already heard and have simply modified either a lot or just a little. I love both of these beautiful songs but the similarity is obvious. They use essentially the same melody which is also the magic in any song as well as the most difficult thing to create originally. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 28 Aug 2019 22:42:47 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48194,from=rss#post48194https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48194,from=rss#post48194Philer may I refer you to the (great) many similar cases which did not involve a female artist? Hell some even found in favor of female artists! care to discuss the case of "Lady GaGa" vs "Rebecca Francescatti" ? (two women)nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Wed, 28 Aug 2019 16:57:02 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48185,from=rss#post48185https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48185,from=rss#post48185quote:snowpixie wrote: he is a very impressive expert witness, whom juries have listened too in the past. Under oath, he told the truth that they were alike but then tried to say that classical and western music had similar songs, and lost the jury. it's that simple. I doubt it. It's more likely as simple as the jury favoring the nice Christian rapper over the big bad pagan Katy Perry. Those eight notes in the rapper's song are not even the same eight notes in Katy's song. And there is so much more to Katy's song that has no connection to his that it's almost ridiculous to compare the two songs. I think this a phenomenon that is more likely to occur again when someone's song is very simple like that of the rapper and mostly consists of rapping rather than melody. What little melody it has, no matter how simple or similar to something in other songs, will be so important to the song that it will be the focus of attention. Unfortunately in this case it's very similar to sequences in other songs that predate it and not just the similar sequence in Katy's song. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 28 Aug 2019 02:32:04 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48164,from=rss#post48164https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48164,from=rss#post48164he is a very impressive expert witness, whom juries have listened too in the past. Under oath, he told the truth that they were alike but then tried to say that classical and western music had similar songs, and lost the jury. it's that simple. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:25:29 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48159,from=rss#post48159https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48159,from=rss#post48159The problem of dueling experts is another problem that plagues the jury system in general, not just in this case. How are jurors who are not experts themselves in some subject supposed to know which expert to believe? A common way they seem to handle it is by picking the expert who is working for the side they favor. They favor that side so naturally he or she is the expert who is more believable to them. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Mon, 26 Aug 2019 03:04:00 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48152,from=rss#post48152https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48152,from=rss#post48152quote:snowpixie wrote: Phil, there was damning evidence by the plaintiff’s expert witness. Todd Decker. it's not that complicated.  both sides experts had previously characterized an eight-note ‘ostinato,’ a.k.a. a repeating sequence of musical figures within both songs” In Decker’s opinion, those ostinatos share “five or six points of similarity,” including pitch, rhythm, texture, a pattern of repetition, melodic shape and timbre, or “the quality and color of a sound.” He also added that the “descending melodies” of both ostinatos are unique. “I have not seen another piece that descends in the way these two do,” he noted. also, the jury heard that joyful noises had been streamed over 5 million times. So this song was popular and was not irrelevant. They found it hard to believe that no one on her team being in the music business hadn't heard it. And the defense's expert witness Lawrence Ferrara testified that both songs shared ostinatos that were a lot like those in older songs. If they were not unique to those two songs and had been used before how did Flame's song manage to secure an exclusive copyright to them? And couldn't Katy and the other songwriters have heard some of those older, familiar songs and gotten inspiration from them, including Flame? Lawrence Ferrara is every bit the expert that Todd Decker is and New York University stands up quite well to Wash U in St. Louis. So which expert opinion should the jury have believed? What led them to believe Todd Decker rather than Lawrence Ferrara? It appears to be a little more complicated than what you believe it to be. It wasn't simply a matter of picking the obviously right side since that is not what the jury did. They had to go with the side which they liked better, not the one with the most merit. https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/faculty/Lawrence_Ferraranondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 25 Aug 2019 19:13:14 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48146,from=rss#post48146https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48146,from=rss#post48146Phil, there was damning evidence by the plaintiff’s expert witness. Todd Decker. it's not that complicated.  both sides experts had previously characterized an eight-note ‘ostinato,’ a.k.a. a repeating sequence of musical figures within both songs” In Decker’s opinion, those ostinatos share “five or six points of similarity,” including pitch, rhythm, texture, a pattern of repetition, melodic shape and timbre, or “the quality and color of a sound.” He also added that the “descending melodies” of both ostinatos are unique. “I have not seen another piece that descends in the way these two do,” he noted. also, the jury heard that joyful noises had been streamed over 5 million times. So this song was popular and was not irrelevant. They found it hard to believe that no one on her team being in the music business hadn't heard it. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:54:31 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48139,from=rss#post48139https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48139,from=rss#post48139quote:snowpixie wrote: he lost me comparing classical music and western music That was pretty lame.   Your probably right my mind was made up after I listened to both songs. I've listened to both songs more than once and didn't find much similarity at all. The sequence of notes in question that is most similar is not even identical. And keep in mind when talking about "experts" that the jury didn't just listen to one of them. The guy on Katy Perry's side had credentials from New York University. How did they know that the "expert" they favored was right and the other one was wrong? The answer is that they didn't know. They simply favored one side over the other and no surprise, it wasn't the defendant Katy Perry's side. So by that preference they decided which "expert" to agree with. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 25 Aug 2019 01:53:49 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48138,from=rss#post48138https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48138,from=rss#post48138he lost me comparing classical music and western music That was pretty lame.   Your probably right my mind was made up after I listened to both songs. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sun, 25 Aug 2019 00:12:26 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48136,from=rss#post48136https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48136,from=rss#post48136quote:snowpixie wrote:  Number one, Adam Neely does not have the credentials to be an expert witness. As far as I can tell he just has the credentials to post a youtube video of his opinion.  Todd Decker, on the other hand, earned his masters of Music degree, completed Ph. D. in Music and now is a Professor of Music and Chair of the Music Department of a major University. I suspect the juror listened to his expert testimony and what he told him made sense to them. I think we are beating a dead horse here.   You're probably right about the horse. You seem to be extremely convinced that some form of theft occurred despite that not being evident which provides insight into why our jury system doesn't work very well. People on juries often don't need things to be evident either before they render verdicts. As for Todd Decker, he may have earned a Masters of Music degree but that doesn't mean he's right. Plus he was paid by the plaintiff's side in the lawsuit. And Neely did more than just express his opinion. He presented some evidence backing that opinion up. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sat, 24 Aug 2019 22:47:36 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48124,from=rss#post48124https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48124,from=rss#post48124 Number one, Adam Neely does not have the credentials to be an expert witness. As far as I can tell he just has the credentials to post a youtube video of his opinion.  Todd Decker, on the other hand, earned his masters of Music degree, completed Ph. D. in Music and now is a Professor of Music and Chair of the Music Department of a major University. I suspect the juror listened to his expert testimony and what he told him made sense to them. I think we are beating a dead horse here.  nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sat, 24 Aug 2019 05:36:03 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48118,from=rss#post48118https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48118,from=rss#post48118Here's another insightful take on this case, snowpixie. If you truly believe the jury in this case reached the right decision watch it and discover the truth. They either didn't know what the heck they were doing which is often the case with largely ignorant and biased juries or they blatantly ruled against Katy just because they wanted her to lose the case. Either way they were unqualified to be on the jury. This case was another courtroom farce with incompetent people ruling in a way which merely demonstrated their lack of qualification for the job they were given to do. BTW, I recommend this very interesting video for anyone interested in what happened in this case as well as the music industry in general. I consider music an important art that should be free from the kind of legal nonsense that happened in this lawsuit. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sat, 24 Aug 2019 02:47:59 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48115,from=rss#post48115https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48115,from=rss#post48115If you listen to infringement cases, none of us would know the difference from beans.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:35:19 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48106,from=rss#post48106https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48106,from=rss#post48106quote:snowpixie wrote: so you're a songwriter, that doesn't see any similarity. wow I never claimed there was no similarity at all in spots. There's some similarity in the beginning of the songs but overall not much. Not enough to rule that there was copyright infringement or theft of a song. That's ridiculous. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:35:57 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48105,from=rss#post48105https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48105,from=rss#post48105so you're a songwriter, that doesn't see any similarity. wow nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Fri, 23 Aug 2019 16:53:07 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48100,from=rss#post48100https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48100,from=rss#post48100quote:I think your getting melody confused with rhythm.-snowpixie Not at all. quote:Joyful Noise and Dark horses have the same melody the difference is that Katie Perry Sings over the melody and Dark horses rhythm is slightly slower. Joyful Noise hardly has any melody at all and what melody it has is not duplicated in the Katy Perry song. quote:I don't know your music background, but I can see the similarities, without having to listen to other people opinions. I'm a song writer and I also don't need to listen to other people's opinions including those of a jury to recognize that the two songs are very different. quote:juries are given clear instructions when they deliberate for them to be fair. Yes but that doesn't magically make them fair. It's like telling an ex-convict to obey the law. It has no power to make them do anything. quote:Yet you decided to name call juries by calling them dumb when they were given specific criteria to follow. I think at the time you can be overzealous trying to make this about a woman being victimized. Instead of it being about copyright laws. I've got a very negative view of juries in general because their stock in trade seems to be ignorance as well as bias. In this case I saw no evidence that the jury reached the right verdict. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Fri, 23 Aug 2019 04:45:35 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48085,from=rss#post48085https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48085,from=rss#post48085quote:Philer wrote: quote:snowpixie wrote:  I don't understand your logic. 1. you have to have permission from an artist to use the work they own/copyrighted. 2. copyright laws are for a period of time once that time up anybody can use them.   I think it's insulting that you think this lawsuit is about someone going after a poor defenseless woman. Katy Perry is very strong, and opinionated women, that is not what this lawsuit is about. This is about protecting your art. You have to have a catchy beat otherwise you won't have a memorable song. we went centuries without composers copying other artists work. How was that possible? I would imagine they didn't have access to their music to copy. there was no internet. no radio, and no copying. funny how that works. The logic I'm using is not complicated. After comparing the two songs I don't see where the Katy Perry song has much in common with the Flame song. At least not enough to justify her losing a lawsuit for copyright infringement. And how strong and opinionated Katy is is irrelevant. It's her gender that is relevant since there wasn't enough evidence to render a verdict of copyright infringement based on similarities between the two songs. The jury in her case favored the man who brought the lawsuit against her. Perhaps they figured she had so much money she might as well fork over some of it to him. If songs have different melodies they are different enough to not warrant successful copyright infringement lawsuits. Similar harmonies and beats are not what distinguishes songs. If that were true all of Fats Dominoe's songs would sound alike and essentially be the same song. How do we tell his songs apart? The melodies.   I think your getting melody confused with rhythm. Joyful Noise and Dark horses have the same melody the difference is that Katie Perry Sings over the melody and Dark horses rhythm is slightly slower. I don't know your music background, but I can see the similarities, without having to listen to other people opinions. juries are given clear instructions when they deliberate for them to be fair. Yet you decided to name call juries by calling them dumb when they were given specific criteria to follow. I think at the time you can be overzealous trying to make this about a woman being victimized. Instead of it being about copyright laws. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Thu, 22 Aug 2019 06:59:23 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48077,from=rss#post48077https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48077,from=rss#post48077quote:katie5445 wrote: The lawsuits in music is amazing. I have often read a slight difference in a melody can make you lose a lawsuit What the reality is it happens to both genders woman are not picked on it's about rights and money not your gender Wishful thinking on your part. Juries render verdicts based on factors of bias and prejudice and simply who they like better, not on the basis of evidence. Remember that case I mentioned of the woman who had breast implants who sued because the implants were defective and caused her pain and suffering? If I recall correctly, she was a topless dancer and the jury had no sympathy at all for her even though she had a legitimate case against the defendants in the lawsuit. She had been given a defective product that harmed her but the jury couldn't have cared less. They blamed her for what had been done to her through the use of a defective product. As one juror said, she had chosen to have the implants. That's like saying anytime someone buys a flawed and defective product that if something goes wrong it's the fault of the buyer. Only a prejudiced juror would render a verdict based on BS like that. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:27:16 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48076,from=rss#post48076https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48076,from=rss#post48076quote:snowpixie wrote:  I don't understand your logic. 1. you have to have permission from an artist to use the work they own/copyrighted. 2. copyright laws are for a period of time once that time up anybody can use them.   I think it's insulting that you think this lawsuit is about someone going after a poor defenseless woman. Katy Perry is very strong, and opinionated women, that is not what this lawsuit is about. This is about protecting your art. You have to have a catchy beat otherwise you won't have a memorable song. we went centuries without composers copying other artists work. How was that possible? I would imagine they didn't have access to their music to copy. there was no internet. no radio, and no copying. funny how that works. The logic I'm using is not complicated. After comparing the two songs I don't see where the Katy Perry song has much in common with the Flame song. At least not enough to justify her losing a lawsuit for copyright infringement. And how strong and opinionated Katy is is irrelevant. It's her gender that is relevant since there wasn't enough evidence to render a verdict of copyright infringement based on similarities between the two songs. The jury in her case favored the man who brought the lawsuit against her. Perhaps they figured she had so much money she might as well fork over some of it to him. If songs have different melodies they are different enough to not warrant successful copyright infringement lawsuits. Similar harmonies and beats are not what distinguishes songs. If that were true all of Fats Dominoe's songs would sound alike and essentially be the same song. How do we tell his songs apart? The melodies. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:16:59 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48058,from=rss#post48058https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48058,from=rss#post48058The lawsuits in music is amazing. I have often read a slight difference in a melody can make you lose a lawsuit What the reality is it happens to both genders woman are not picked on it's about rights and money not your gender nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Mon, 19 Aug 2019 03:16:08 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48051,from=rss#post48051https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48051,from=rss#post48051 I don't understand your logic. 1. you have to have permission from an artist to use the work they own/copyrighted. 2. copyright laws are for a period of time once that time up anybody can use them.   I think it's insulting that you think this lawsuit is about someone going after a poor defenseless woman. Katy Perry is very strong, and opinionated women, that is not what this lawsuit is about. This is about protecting your art. You have to have a catchy beat otherwise you won't have a memorable song. we went centuries without composers copying other artists work. How was that possible? I would imagine they didn't have access to their music to copy. there was no internet. no radio, and no copying. funny how that works. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sun, 18 Aug 2019 22:30:19 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48047,from=rss#post48047https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48047,from=rss#post48047quote:snowpixie wrote:   the chorus is hers as well as the lyrics but the electronic underlying beat is too similar. I think someone tweaked it just enough that they thought it made it their own. My brother wrote a song when he was a teenager and sent it to a friend of my dad's who was a record producer, two months later a very similar song came out by another one of his clients. had the same underlying beat I liked my brother's version better. but the other one was pretty successful, for that time period. It was changed just enough for people to think it wasn't a total rip off. You can't make it obvious. several things could have happened 1. coincident electronic beat 5 years apart. 2. stole the beat and tweaked to make it their own.  she's been accused before of ripping off other artists. back in 2013, some artists steal from lesser-known artists because they can. It's hard to prove, it happens more than one would think. A song being similar is not the same thing as being the same song or a ripoff. Having a similar or even the same beat alone is certainly not a ripoff. Whole genres of music have the same beat or very similar beats. If someone wrote a song using the distinctive beat that Fats Domino used with a brand new melody would that mean they'd have to pay money to his estate? The reality is that another incompetent jury ruled against a woman and others on her side because they favored a man over a woman. If there is another explanation I don't know what it is because those two songs are not similar enough to warrant Katy's song being called a ripoff of the other. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 18 Aug 2019 19:08:51 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48044,from=rss#post48044https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48044,from=rss#post48044  the chorus is hers as well as the lyrics but the electronic underlying beat is too similar. I think someone tweaked it just enough that they thought it made it their own. My brother wrote a song when he was a teenager and sent it to a friend of my dad's who was a record producer, two months later a very similar song came out by another one of his clients. had the same underlying beat I liked my brother's version better. but the other one was pretty successful, for that time period. It was changed just enough for people to think it wasn't a total rip off. You can't make it obvious. several things could have happened 1. coincident electronic beat 5 years apart. 2. stole the beat and tweaked to make it their own.  she's been accused before of ripping off other artists. back in 2013, some artists steal from lesser-known artists because they can. It's hard to prove, it happens more than one would think. nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sun, 18 Aug 2019 02:27:30 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48040,from=rss#post48040https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48040,from=rss#post48040quote:snowpixie wrote: was it a huge settlement? 550k? Her song brought in 31 million. Regardless it's being appealed. So he gets nothing and will have to pay lawyers to defend himself again. He has been fighting her legal team since 2014. He only got a small fraction of the 31 million he was hoping to get. From what I've read of the case, the lawyers are the only one making money.   The important question is why did the jury side with him and his legal team at all since Katy's song is not a ripoff of his song? Did you watch the video? Even the guy who is no fan of Katy doesn't considerate it a ripoff of the rapper and he is a musician who has some knowledge of what he was talking about. In this case for the jury to have known what they were doing it would have helped if they were musicians. I doubt that there was one musician on the jury. Musicians were probably kept off the jury. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 18 Aug 2019 01:12:29 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48037,from=rss#post48037https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48037,from=rss#post48037At least it's not a Katy conspiracy for once. There are too many, and I don't think she was related to the girl who died in any way.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Shetaki)Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:43:42 +0000 Re: Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48036,from=rss#post48036https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48036,from=rss#post48036was it a huge settlement? 550k? Her song brought in 31 million. Regardless it's being appealed. So he gets nothing and will have to pay lawyers to defend himself again. He has been fighting her legal team since 2014. He only got a small fraction of the 31 million he was hoping to get. From what I've read of the case, the lawyers are the only one making money.  nondisclosed_email@example.com (snowpixie)Sat, 17 Aug 2019 20:55:44 +0000 Katy Perry victimized by another dumb juryhttps://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p47942,from=rss#post47942https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p47942,from=rss#post47942Female celebrities are obviously not immune from the incompetence and sexism of moronic juries. In this case some guy going by the name of Flame won a huge settlement against Katy Perry thanks to a collection of nine stupid jurors who didn't know what they were doing. They apparently knew as much about music as Mortimer Snerd knew about theoretical physics. I guess they figured that since Katy Perry was a woman she must have been guilty of stealing from the brilliant "musician" Flame, a Christian rap "artist." nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:49:50 +0000