mais oui
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
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Nudity in films is just a gimmick to try to make more money
and titty bars - of which you seem to approve - are what?
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HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
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9/23/2019, 2:04 pm
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Philer
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
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mais oui wrote:
quote:
Nudity in films is just a gimmick to try to make more money
and titty bars - of which you seem to approve - are what?
I'm not a fan of them or so-called gentlemen's clubs. I also don't object to restrictions being placed on them like cabaret licenses with certain requirements before they are allowed to operate.
What I object to is the double standard from the courts that makes the claim that nudity in films is protected by the first amendment while nudity on stage, unless it's in a play, is not. From a legal and moral standpoint that is rubbish.
It's also silly and sexist to claim that somehow the nudity in films is high art since it is directed by some film maker, usually a man, while that involving just a woman performing a striptease on stage obviously doesn't qualify as anything even close to art. How could it since no man was directing her?
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9/24/2019, 10:13 am
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katie5445
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
There was a time some were called artists, like Gypsy Rose Lee. Everyone's boundaries are different. I know you don't watch "Outlander." you'd freak out. It has been decades since I have been but there is a strip club in Portland called the Acropolis, cheap steaks, cheap drinks and the mix is men and women and not lesbians, women go to those shows with friends/partners, it is not all male dominated. There might be a reason regarding nudity and strip clubs. There is a no touchy touchy policy that some men can't seem to rein in, one time I saw a drunk guy try and do something.....with his mouth on her vagina. Ouch. I don't mind nudity as long as the person doing it, is good with it. In films they aren't forced they can get a body double. I don't remember what actress but she stated nude clauses are explicit to what they will or won't show. this one you can see my breasts but not my nipples, you can see the lower part of my back to where my butt starts but your'e not seeing my butt, they get butt doubles..........
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9/24/2019, 4:03 pm
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Philer
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
I'm not claiming that women working in "gentlemen's clubs" are like Gypsy Rose Lee or legendary performer Lili St.Cyr but the notion that nudity in films is somehow on a higher plane than what striptease dancers do is ridiculous.
Lili St. Cyr used to take a bath on stage. How was she less an artist than Neve Campbell taking a shower in a film?
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9/25/2019, 2:19 am
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katie5445
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
No one can touch you in film. I don't think we can look past to the 40's-50's people are far more open about nudity, sex, gender, I look at it as protecting women on stage. and not to be sexist, it probably has more to do with drunk men than anything. Or you are in the Midwest..........
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9/25/2019, 6:48 am
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Philer
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
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katie5445 wrote:
No one can touch you in film. I don't think we can look past to the 40's-50's people are far more open about nudity, sex, gender, I look at it as protecting women on stage. and not to be sexist, it probably has more to do with drunk men than anything. Or you are in the Midwest..........
When the Supreme Court ruled that nudity on stage was not protected by the First Amendment they made no mention of protecting the women on stage. They talked about things like morality and secondary effects such as increasing the criminal activity in the vicinity of striptease clubs. Justice Souter also mentioned something about it promoting prostitution.
I found the latter particularly amusing since pornographic films, which they had no problem with, are made utilizing prostitution.
The reality is that it was a ruling against the women who brought the case to the Supreme Court brought about by a lack of respect for them and what they did for a living. It certainly had nothing to do with protecting them from drunken customers.
Strip clubs have their own internal means of protecting the performers. If lawmakers are concerned about their safety and nothing indicates that they are, they could pass laws requiring increased security and protection for the performers in strip clubs. That wouldn't require the performers to wear pasties and g-strings.
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9/25/2019, 11:07 am
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shiftless2
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
My reaction to the entire question is "Who cares?"
After all, anyone entering a strip club is doing so of their own free will. They're going to be carded because alcohol is served so they aren't "children". So why does anyone care if there are naked women dancing on stage?
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9/25/2019, 4:06 pm
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Philer
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
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shiftless2 wrote:
My reaction to the entire question is "Who cares?"
After all, anyone entering a strip club is doing so of their own free will. They're going to be carded because alcohol is served so they aren't "children". So why does anyone care if there are naked women dancing on stage?
Good question and the answer has traditionally been a matter of morality. Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia of New York City famously declared that burlesque shows were promoting violent sexual assaults so he closed them all down in New York.
It has been a very common view that strip shows were immoral and needed to be censored or banned entirely. Of course in a society that legally tolerates pornographic films as well as nudity in mainstream films and plays the Supreme Court couldn't consistently justify a ban on nudity in striptease shows. That didn't stop it from trying to do so with a load of rubbish about "secondary effects", immorality, public nudity and promoting prostitution.
What they were really doing was discriminating against the women who work in that profession. There was no constitutional justification for their ruling. A lot of the opposition to that profession hasn't been based on anything substantive other than a lack of respect for the women in it.
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9/26/2019, 4:34 am
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katie5445
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
quote:
shiftless2 wrote:
My reaction to the entire question is "Who cares?"
After all, anyone entering a strip club is doing so of their own free will. They're going to be carded because alcohol is served so they aren't "children". So why does anyone care if there are naked women dancing on stage?
You do need to care, it is not uncommon for strip clubs to employ minors and especially those that have been forced by sex trafficking. Just like in a nail/pedi salon, if you can get a massage in the backroom, as an adult a light bulb should go off in ones head.
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9/28/2019, 9:01 pm
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Philer
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Re: Kansas City strip joint dances around the law
People definitely should care and such places need to be highly regulated to protect the performers. The history of burlesque and strip shows is partly one of under age performers but at least in burlesque shows in the past performers were looked out for largely by other performers and even managers who didn't want trouble from the law. It was show business that actually was about entertaining people, both men and women, rather than just lifting money out of men's wallets.
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9/29/2019, 6:55 am
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