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The Joker strikes again!


What exactly is the responsibility of film makers when they make a film which may provoke or inspire violence? Is it the same as those who supply violent and irrational people with guns? Or is it even worse in some ways since without the idea and desire to commit a violent crime nobody would use a weapon to commit one?

And where has all the criticism been earlier when all the hit men and serial killer movies were being made and released to entertain the masses? This film is certainly not the first film to possibly give bad ideas to stupid people. That phenomenon goes back a long time even before the horror film Halloween came out, another movie that some critics loved which actually wasn't a good film at all. Just dumb and full of depictions of idiotic violence.

https://www.newsday.com/entertainment/movies/joker-joaquin-phoenix-1.36744533
9/25/2019, 6:17 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


Some comments from the Newsday article:

"The rare comic-book movie that expresses what's happening in the real world," read the headline for Variety's rave review. Conversely, David Ehrlich at IndieWire called the film "a toxic rallying cry for self-pitying incels" and "a bar-lowering mess of moral incoherence."

The public will make up its own mind when "Joker" arrives in theaters Oct. 4. Already, though, "Joker" seems destined to join the ranks of other cinematic Molotov cocktails that have exploded in popular culture, from the shockingly violent crime drama "Bonnie and Clyde" (1967) to the scorned-woman fable "Fatal Attraction" (1987) to Oliver Stone's nihilistic satire "Natural Born Killers" (1994). Though nominally just the origin story of a DC Comics character, "Joker" is adding fuel to volatile political debates over gender, race, gun violence and domestic terrorism.
9/25/2019, 6:21 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


I don't do comic book movies, a genre I don't like. "Natural Born Killers" was directed by Stone but it was written by Quentin Tarentino. They show violence as we are a violent people, movies are a reflection of reality when it comes to violence and especially in this country. Bonnie and Clyde were shocking and they were real. What else would you like to hide and pretend doesn't exist? Should we not see those films of the exterminated in the Holocaust? You are more worried about what goes on in film/stage than you are the reality of what goes on in real life which there is nothing in film to compare to a reality!
9/25/2019, 7:07 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
mais oui Profile
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

What exactly is the responsibility of film makers when they make a film which may provoke or inspire violence?




NONE none what so ever......

Boy ‘told his mum he wanted to rape her after watching chimps mating on TV’

"She told the court: ‘He came up behind me and put his hands under my armpits and then that’s when he started touching my right breast and was pushing me against the draining board, and rubbing himself up and down me, his genitals in contact with my body. ‘I told him to stop and tried pushing him back but he was so strong and I could hear him breathing really heavily in my right ear. He stopped, didn’t say anything just moved away and went into the living room. I don’t know how long the incident was, it felt like forever.’




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HAPPINESS, THE IGNOBLE LIFE GOAL OF THE ILLITERATE
9/25/2019, 10:27 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

I don't do comic book movies, a genre I don't like. "Natural Born Killers" was directed by Stone but it was written by Quentin Tarentino. They show violence as we are a violent people, movies are a reflection of reality when it comes to violence and especially in this country. Bonnie and Clyde were shocking and they were real. What else would you like to hide and pretend doesn't exist? Should we not see those films of the exterminated in the Holocaust? You are more worried about what goes on in film/stage than you are the reality of what goes on in real life which there is nothing in film to compare to a reality!



"Natural Born Killers" has a reputation for promoting violence and murder which isn't surprising. It probably has. I find it fascinating that people make films like that when there are so many other wonderful things, better things that they could make films about.

But it isn't really surprising. Hollywood is a dirt mill. It turns out garbage and doesn't seem to really care whether or not that garbage leads to problems down the road. It just keeps churning out the crap heedless of any harm that results. And that in an industry that is probably dominated by liberals who supposedly have a social conscience. What happened to that social conscience? Did it fly out the window at the thought of big bucks being made?

We are much more than a violent people. We are an extremely complicated, multi-faceted people who do a lot of things besides commit violent crimes. Hollywood seems to have a largely one track mind though about that and just keeps turning out the garbage about serial killers, hit men and other assorted violent criminals.

One other point. It isn't a question of pretending that violent people don't exist. It's a question of how those criminals are being presented in film. Are they sympathetic characters or are they portrayed as the real creeps they are in real life? Liberal film makers tend to put way too much of a positive spin on them and turn them into sympathetic characters. Victims of abuse etc when the reality is, as I've tried to explain, they are not victims but rather victimizers. Usually they are what I like to call Prima Donnas with overly inflated egos out for themselves.

Lets see Hollywood portray them as what they really are instead of the made up victim characters they aren't.
9/25/2019, 11:26 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

NONE none what so ever...... -mais oui



Only from a legal standpoint. And even that might be stretched to the breaking point by a film maker who made a film depicting violence against our president or some other politician.

Films can promote violence just as advertising can sell products.
9/25/2019, 11:31 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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quote:

And even that might be stretched to the breaking point by a film maker who made a film depicting violence against our president or some other politician.



I think that there are a great many films which deal with that - no one has been or indeed should be prosecuted.

if some idiot is persuaded to kill (any one) because of a film then its on him and only him - just as the makers of a wildlife film are not responsible if some numb nut sees chips mating and decides to rape his mother.

not for the first time Philer you are showing some very weird thinking make a violent film and you are responsible for the actions of people who see it BUT sell highly addictive drugs whilst telling people that they arent addictive gets a pass!

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9/26/2019, 4:42 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


It's been long debunked movies or kids videos cause one to commit murder or mass murder or violence. Billions of persons over decades have watched tv/movies and played the videos. Where do film makers get these ideas if not from real life? If you are that seriously ill those kind of thoughts are already in your head, you don't need a film or a video for ideas, they could give those dark, evil thoughts that roam their head to the film/video industry.
9/26/2019, 7:20 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

I think that there are a great many films which deal with that - no one has been or indeed should be prosecuted.-mais oui



What if someone made a film depicting a president who looked like Trump being assassinated and the assassin not only getting away with it but somehow being lauded as a hero? Do you think that such a film would be tolerated?

We've already seen a film being kept out of theatres because of its theme of conservatives being hunted down by liberals. If films are perfectly harmless and nothing they depict has any impact why was that film pulled?

quote:

if some idiot is persuaded to kill (any one) because of a film then its on him and only him - just as the makers of a wildlife film are not responsible if some numb nut sees chips mating and decides to rape his mother.



It's not that simple. If a film merely depicts something without advocating it in any way you have a point. But what if a film depicts a violent criminal in a positive way and portrays him as a good guy who is doing something that he either needs to do or has to do because of what he has experienced?

quote:

not for the first time Philer you are showing some very weird thinking make a violent film and you are responsible for the actions of people who see it BUT sell highly addictive drugs whilst telling people that they arent addictive gets a pass!



A classic apples and oranges comparison or more like an apples and tow truck comparison. Selling an addictive drug that everyone knows or should know is additive no matter what is said about it is very different from making a film which promotes violence.

As I've said, addiction is not the reason why people overdose on any narcotic so how could lying about that be tied to people being killed? In the case of films, they can promote and gnerate ideas and beliefs about when violence is justified. That fact that it is only stupid people who are influenced by crappy films which promote violence doesn't relieve film makers of their responsibility for generating such crap.

Even good films can contain a bad message. For example, have you ever seen a John Wayne film where he explodes in rage and violence because someone insulted him? What does some impressionable kid believe when he sees the Duke beat up some guy who called him a name? Isn't he going to get the idea that beating up someone is what the good guy does when he is insulted by someone? Or is he going to be smart enough to know that that was just the character in the film wailing on someone?

Last edited by Philer, 9/28/2019, 7:14 am
9/28/2019, 7:13 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

It's been long debunked movies or kids videos cause one to commit murder or mass murder or violence. Billions of persons over decades have watched tv/movies and played the videos. Where do film makers get these ideas if not from real life? If you are that seriously ill those kind of thoughts are already in your head, you don't need a film or a video for ideas, they could give those dark, evil thoughts that roam their head to the film/video industry.



Films can give people ideas about what kind violence to commit as well as phony reasons for committing violence. As well as good reasons for committing it.

It just depends on the film. The film "Red Eye" depicts a woman defending herself from a killer who is trying to force her to help him commit multiple murders. Great film which shows that women can defend themselves from violent criminals.

A very different film, "Halloween", depicted a serial killer going around murdering innocent people for no reason that makes any sense at all and it did so from the perspective of the killer. It portrayed the killer as very scary but not as an imbecile, which is what such a killer would be in real life. That film has probably promoted at least some idiotic violence like that depicted in the film.

Films can easily have an influence on what people believe and that includes beliefs about when violence is acceptable.
9/28/2019, 7:26 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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