The Joker strikes again! https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/t4459 Runboard| The Joker strikes again! en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:10:47 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 15:10:47 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49341,from=rss#post49341https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49341,from=rss#post49341If you read about it, it does tell you a lot more than you are thinking, many articles are for lay persons, Mayo Clinic has an excellent article describing personality disorders and their clusters. Narcissist is part of a cluster As I've said, it is no longer hard to diagnosis what is there is no treatment for the violent. Mental illness has always been a battle for society to accept, at least they don't do lobotomies any more....... You seem to ignore the persons with psycho/sociopath illness that are not violent the other 95%, you need to look at the whole picture, just not just the 5%.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Thu, 30 Jan 2020 14:53:19 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49330,from=rss#post49330https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49330,from=rss#post49330quote:katie5445 wrote: You cut through, no you don't. The problem with terms like psychopath and sociopath is that they don't really tell us anything significant about these sorts of criminals and may even be a little misleading in that they imply some sort of mental illness. They are just ambiguous terms pulled out of the air by psychiatrists and psychologists whereas the term Prima Donna is largely self-explanatory and applies quite well to that type of criminal. It's a term that likely applies to most criminals and in particular the violent ones. Psychologists should stick to the term narcissist to provide a better understanding of their true nature. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:41:22 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49313,from=rss#post49313https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49313,from=rss#post49313You cut through, no you don't.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Mon, 27 Jan 2020 01:40:16 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49299,from=rss#post49299https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49299,from=rss#post49299quote:katie5445 wrote: I happen to think there is a whole lot more history to someone shooting their parents for not using the family car. I don't have a clue as there is no history. I disagree with your terminology, a prima donna is a vain undisciplined person, selfish is thinking about one's own welfare and spoiled brat equals behavorial problems, nothing defines your terminology as murderers. I use the Prima Donna terminology to cut through the BS of concepts like psychopaths or sociopaths which imply some sort of mental illness as well as a whole lot of ambiguity about exactly what such people are. They are not all that complicated people nor are they mysterious in any significant way. They have been conditioned to think about themselves first and foremost while not caring much about other people. Psychologists do a much better job of describing them when they talk about narcissistic personalities. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Thu, 23 Jan 2020 18:15:00 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49287,from=rss#post49287https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49287,from=rss#post49287I happen to think there is a whole lot more history to someone shooting their parents for not using the family car. I don't have a clue as there is no history. I disagree with your terminology, a prima donna is a vain undisciplined person, selfish is thinking about one's own welfare and spoiled brat equals behavorial problems, nothing defines your terminology as murderers.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Wed, 22 Jan 2020 00:59:16 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49230,from=rss#post49230https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49230,from=rss#post49230quote:katie5445 wrote: Anyone can be fooled sometimes but not all the time and certainly not as often as you think. The "family car" gross exaggeration! Whether an abused child, woman or man, I will take their word until proven otherwise. You seem to easily take a woman's plight but certainly leave out children the most vulnerable and men as well. Equality means far more than just sticking up for women. It's no gross exaggeration. Parents have been shot by Prima Donna sons for not allowing them to use the family car. In one case a mother was shot and killed by her son while the father was shot and wounded because they had not allowed him to use the car when he really wanted to use it. After the murder of his wife the father took it upon himself to try to get his son off the hook by claiming he was mentally ill. He was continuing the pattern of coddling his son even after he had committed murder in the family. The authorities didn't buy it and the son went to prison for murder. And I don't take the word of murderers about how they were abused as children. I wouldn't take their word about anything. They have a great tendency to lie and to believe bullshit which they try to convince other people to believe. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:13:52 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49220,from=rss#post49220https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49220,from=rss#post49220Anyone can be fooled sometimes but not all the time and certainly not as often as you think. The "family car" gross exaggeration! Whether an abused child, woman or man, I will take their word until proven otherwise. You seem to easily take a woman's plight but certainly leave out children the most vulnerable and men as well. Equality means far more than just sticking up for women.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 04 Jan 2020 03:13:58 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49210,from=rss#post49210https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49210,from=rss#post49210quote:katie5445 wrote: If you are a criminal who has robbed a bank and you are sane, bullshitting is extremely difficult. If you are a drug scammer, same. It is when you aren't with the program and you do believe you are justified, otherwise you are a bullshitter, easy pickins, most the times, I had a brother-in-law as a bullshitter and we have one as president, neither have fooled me. Even FBI profilers can be fooled by extremely violent criminals even to the point of liking them after buying their nonsense about being mistreated by a parent, often their mothers. What profilers need to realize is that from the perspective of a Prima Donna it doesn't take much to qualify as abuse. To them things like not being allowed to drive the family car when you want to is a form of abuse. You can't take their word that they have been abused because even if they aren't good actors they may actually believe they were abused when they weren't abused at all. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Thu, 02 Jan 2020 18:01:11 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49182,from=rss#post49182https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49182,from=rss#post49182If you are a criminal who has robbed a bank and you are sane, bullshitting is extremely difficult. If you are a drug scammer, same. It is when you aren't with the program and you do believe you are justified, otherwise you are a bullshitter, easy pickins, most the times, I had a brother-in-law as a bullshitter and we have one as president, neither have fooled me.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Fri, 20 Dec 2019 00:37:51 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49168,from=rss#post49168https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49168,from=rss#post49168quote:katie5445 wrote: Yes it is and most people are extremely bad actors. I have a very good point, ever watch a judge show, Dr. Phil, Donald Trump? It does not take the almost 50 mill Judge Judy makes only a slight bit of common sense to pick out liars. It's more complicated than that even when you can pick out liars based on the bad acting of some people. What about criminals who actually believe the bullshit they are dishing out? Then they won't even need to act to present a false view of what they did or why they did it. There's no way around the fact that the best guide to a criminal's mentality is the crime they committed, not what they have to say about it. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:41:22 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49160,from=rss#post49160https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49160,from=rss#post49160Yes it is and most people are extremely bad actors. I have a very good point, ever watch a judge show, Dr. Phil, Donald Trump? It does not take the almost 50 mill Judge Judy makes only a slight bit of common sense to pick out liars.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Wed, 18 Dec 2019 02:49:02 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49142,from=rss#post49142https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49142,from=rss#post49142We are significantly different from other animals in some ways but our behaviour still indicates our true nature. Of course you have a point when you include behaviour like body language and expressions on ones face etc. They can also provide insight into what is going on when people are pretending to be something they are not. Still, the crimes he commits are a much more accurate indicator of a criminal's personality than things like his facial expressions while talking about his crimes. They can be quite different from his true personality. It's called acting. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Thu, 12 Dec 2019 21:12:08 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49123,from=rss#post49123https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49123,from=rss#post49123We are significantly different than hundreds of animals. It does not mainly relate to just behavior, there are many tools. One of those tools when asking "questions" is you got bulls**t down quite well. Body language, fake tears, faked hysteria, demeanor, etc., counts as well, they are not so difficult to identify.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Thu, 12 Dec 2019 02:44:51 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49100,from=rss#post49100https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49100,from=rss#post49100quote:katie5445 wrote: It shows certain people, we aren't one of them. You less than me, you have to have contact with those so called certain people, you can't be isolated to your own opinion, that is just winging it, your welcome to it but it doesn't mean it has any meaning other than in your own mind. Why would anyone need to have contact with them(or anyone else such as "experts") or need to question them when their behaviour is known? They are not significantly different from the other animals that scientists study. And what do those scientists study? Mainly their behaviour, what the animals actually do. That provides vast information to scientists studying them. Criminals are no different in that regard. Questioning them only results in them telling you what they want to tell you. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 08 Dec 2019 03:11:03 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49092,from=rss#post49092https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49092,from=rss#post49092It shows certain people, we aren't one of them. You less than me, you have to have contact with those so called certain people, you can't be isolated to your own opinion, that is just winging it, your welcome to it but it doesn't mean it has any meaning other than in your own mind.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 07 Dec 2019 08:12:16 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49083,from=rss#post49083https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49083,from=rss#post49083quote:katie5445 wrote: Based on behavior? That is superficial especially from afar and lack of education. That is like reading a movie star magazine and "knowing" anything about that person! Not at all. Their behaviour is the best guide to understanding criminals. It shows us what is important to them as well as what isn't. They can lie about things like why they did what they did and whether they lost control of themselves but their behaviour doesn't lie. It always tells the truth. It shows us their agenda. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sat, 07 Dec 2019 04:11:53 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49073,from=rss#post49073https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49073,from=rss#post49073Based on behavior? That is superficial especially from afar and lack of education. That is like reading a movie star magazine and "knowing" anything about that person!nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sat, 07 Dec 2019 02:22:55 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49040,from=rss#post49040https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49040,from=rss#post49040quote:katie5445 wrote: You are making assumptions, by reading online, books and tv, more than likely with a handful that agree with you. Doesn't count. There is a list as long as your arm why people do what they do and no I don't think every gross crime is committed by someone who is mentally ill. You talk about behaviour, are you a behavioral scientist, a genetic scientist. Much now is diagnosed on far more than behavior. No, what I believe about criminals is not based on what I've read of other person's opinions about them. Many times those opinions have been wrong. As I said, my view of them is based on the behaviour of criminals, not theories about it that I've read about. It's pretty obvious or should be to most people that criminals are people who are selfish and highly motivated to get what they want at the expense of other people. That's the basic nature of criminals. They are not poor lost souls who were abused and driven to commit their crimes by that abuse nor are they people who suddenly lose control of themselves, going against their own moral principles, who start attacking other people or committing other crimes because they can't help it. Both of those ideas aren't just wrong. They are also dangerous because they create a foundation for believing that at least some criminals, including violent ones, are not really to blame for what they do. The reality is that they are as much to blame for their behaviour as any selfish person is for doing anything that qualifies as selfish. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Thu, 05 Dec 2019 03:44:59 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49035,from=rss#post49035https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49035,from=rss#post49035You are making assumptions, by reading online, books and tv, more than likely with a handful that agree with you. Doesn't count. There is a list as long as your arm why people do what they do and no I don't think every gross crime is committed by someone who is mentally ill. You talk about behaviour, are you a behavioral scientist, a genetic scientist. Much now is diagnosed on far more than behavior.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Thu, 05 Dec 2019 02:20:48 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49005,from=rss#post49005https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p49005,from=rss#post49005I understand criminal behaviour fairly well, katie, because my view of what makes them tick is primarily based on their behaviour itself, not on questionable ideas like that one about them being abused as kids turning them into criminals. When people harm other people to get something they want it isn't because they have a low opinion of themselves due to being abused as children. It's because they have a very high opinion of both themselves and what they want combined with a low opinion of their victims. Or simply a lack of concern or respect for their victims. That's fairly obvious just from the crimes they commit. Why would they harm someone else if not for their own agenda which means more to them than their victim? It's when professionals like profilers make assumptions about them based on concepts they already have that they come up short in understanding them. Being a professional in some relevant field is no guarantee that you will be very good at understanding criminals. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 04 Dec 2019 01:52:56 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48989,from=rss#post48989https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48989,from=rss#post48989I learned a hundred times more out of the classroom than on the job, I would imagine I'm not unusual, what you learn in a classroom is only the beginning. People get other persons MO after years of experience. Unless they are a total jerk, they most certainly do know more than Joe Blow. You may slight the professional and there expertise/experience and I'm not neglecting those who shouldn't be in such professions, that however is true for all professions but it does not mean they share equality with non professionals, that is absurd. They recognize certain behaviors as a constant and criminals present a behavior which I get you as the non criminal understand criminal behavior, right....nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Tue, 03 Dec 2019 04:22:07 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48919,from=rss#post48919https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48919,from=rss#post48919So, are you claiming that in questioning Billy Cook she couldn't have learned anything because she wasn't an expert on criminal behaviour? When the FBI started questioning criminals to do their profiles they didn't know that much about them either. The way they acquired at least some knowledge about them was by questioning them. That's how they became criminal profilers. The whole "science" of criminal profiling is based on questioning actual criminals. There's also another problem with your view. So-called experts aren't necessarily experts because what they have learned, if anything, may be based more on what they studied in classrooms which may or not be true as well as preconceived notions of what makes a criminal tick that they have acquired. When you are an "expert" you may always find what you are looking for because that is what you expect to find even when it isn't actually there. If a criminal tells you something that is true you may reject it as a fabrication because it doesn't agree with what you already believe about the criminal mind or motivation. The bottom line is that professionals and experts are not necessarily more aware of the truth in regard to criminals than a non-professional. Most likely the closest thing to a real expert are the non-professional criminals themselves and they sometimes don't even fully understand their behaviour other than to know that it got them put away. This society is full of myths about what makes criminals tick and even criminals can believe the bullshit. Some of that bullshit has come from so-called experts. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 20 Nov 2019 22:24:20 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48916,from=rss#post48916https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48916,from=rss#post48916Sorry, that does not make her "knowing more about criminals," it means she did research for the film she directed, not the same. Capote spent how many hours with Perry Smith, didn't make him an expert either, neither does researching Hitler for a movie, makes you an expert on Hitler, or war or anything! As lay people, it comes under personal opinion.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Wed, 20 Nov 2019 03:49:30 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48914,from=rss#post48914https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48914,from=rss#post48914Ida did not appear in the film, katie. She only directed it and helped rewrite the script. She also went to San Quentin to interview the real mass murderer, Billy Cook, trying to get some insight on what made him tick.That was an interesting early effort at criminal profiling by someone not affiliated with the FBI. I'm not sure it did her much good although she may have incorporated some of what she gathered from him into the film. Cook frightened her and she was apparently very happy to get out of San Quentin. Ida was smart enough to figure out that there seemed to be something about male egos that led to irrational and violent behaviour like that of Billy Cook. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Wed, 20 Nov 2019 01:01:00 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48912,from=rss#post48912https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48912,from=rss#post48912Geez Philer, it's a movie with Ida Lupino playing a character as an actor, it is not knowing anything about violent criminals, although as a woman director, writer, producer she was into film noir but in real life she wrote children's books and music, was a wife and mother..........nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:39:55 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48907,from=rss#post48907https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48907,from=rss#post48907It's something I've discussed quite a bit, the "Prima Donna" personality of a lot of violent criminals. I found it interesting that actress and director Ida Lupino back in 1953 apparently knew more about violent criminals than many people do today. In her film no phony excuse is given for the guy going on a shooting rampage or taking people hostage. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:56:23 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48905,from=rss#post48905https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48905,from=rss#post48905"She reportedly wanted to explore the self-absorbed narcissism of some men(sound familiar?)" For me personally, no. Does it ring with you ? Why, besides it being exactly the sort of Hollywood trope that you claim you do not promote ? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Mon, 18 Nov 2019 17:38:31 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48903,from=rss#post48903https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48903,from=rss#post48903There was a good film noir from 1953 on TCM today, "The Hitchhiker" directed by Ida Lupino. It was based on the real life case of Billy Cook, a mass murderer who was executed in San Quentin's gas chamber. She reportedly wanted to explore the self-absorbed narcissism of some men(sound familiar?) that leads to them acting like savages toward other men and did a pretty good of doing that. If you were making a film wouldn't you be concerned about what messages you would be getting out there? I'm not calling for government censorship as much as simply wanting to explore the responsibility of film makers not to promote violent crime. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:09:43 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48901,from=rss#post48901https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48901,from=rss#post48901As long as film makers obey the laws they have a very wide berth, freedom of speech. One each person does with that freedom is another matter. I would take a movie recommendation from you, my favorite genre is older movies and I love 40's/50 film noir my fav, "Out of the Past" I watch it every time it's on or some Humphrey Bogart, Hepburn, Irene Dunne, Cary Grant film....then there are the Wes Craven films, Nightmare etc. he has a huge cult following and I don't think you'll find a whole lot of violent criminals in their group More current, Tarantino, Scorsese, or we can go to Rambo or the Terminator movies. Can I say not one criminal has gotten an idea off a film, of course not. The first major school shooting in this country was 1998 many violent, horror, slasher films were made long before that. I hate a date in 1969 who took me to the drive movies where both films were not cheesy horror movies but gore movies. I have yet to forget it, over 50 years ago, nightmares for quite awhile. If media is to blame for violence, I would say it's the web, not tv or movies.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Sun, 17 Nov 2019 01:05:59 +0000 Re: The Joker strikes again!https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48899,from=rss#post48899https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p48899,from=rss#post48899quote:katie5445 wrote: quote:Philer wrote: quote:katie5445 wrote: Film and networks put on what can make them money. I don't watch crime dramas, they bore me. What I have seen, is the criminals either get caught or die. I seldom watch modern crime dramas like the NCIS shows. I agree that they are dull. But I do occasionally watch vintage ones where the writing was a little better. And making money doesn't require film makers or TV show writers to promote criminal behaviour in the form of needless and irrational violence. Making that kind of violence look appealing or justified is not required for financial reasons. Look appealing, that is weird, I don't think that is the motive, and ask persons across the country, why they watch, then ask why 54% still support the death penalty, the second, yeah they are looking for justice or as some say and think, revenge, that is why these true crime dramas are all over the television, I don't watch them either, my sister does and I think it makes her feel good when the murderer is done in. "Natural Born Killers" made irrational violence look appealing to some people who ended up imitating what they saw. If it wasn't appealing to them why did they imitate the violence? I agree that the true crime shows where the bad guys get caught and are dealt with as they should be are fun to watch, at least for some people. They appeal to people who are interested in justice. I'm not a fan of the ones which involve unsolved mysteries. But they are very different from fictional films depicting murderers getting away with their crimes like the films "Halloween" and "Natural Born Killers." A different kind of animal likes that kind of crap. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Philer)Sun, 17 Nov 2019 00:37:54 +0000