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katie5445 Profile
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


Geez Philer, it's a movie with Ida Lupino playing a character as an actor, it is not knowing anything about violent criminals, although as a woman director, writer, producer she was into film noir but in real life she wrote children's books and music, was a wife and mother..........
11/19/2019, 11:39 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


Ida did not appear in the film, katie. She only directed it and helped rewrite the script. She also went to San Quentin to interview the real mass murderer, Billy Cook, trying to get some insight on what made him tick.That was an interesting early effort at criminal profiling by someone not affiliated with the FBI.

I'm not sure it did her much good although she may have incorporated some of what she gathered from him into the film. Cook frightened her and she was apparently very happy to get out of San Quentin.

Ida was smart enough to figure out that there seemed to be something about male egos that led to irrational and violent behaviour like that of Billy Cook.
11/20/2019, 1:01 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


Sorry, that does not make her "knowing more about criminals," it means she did research for the film she directed, not the same. Capote spent how many hours with Perry Smith, didn't make him an expert either, neither does researching Hitler for a movie, makes you an expert on Hitler, or war or anything! As lay people, it comes under personal opinion.
11/20/2019, 3:49 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


So, are you claiming that in questioning Billy Cook she couldn't have learned anything because she wasn't an expert on criminal behaviour? When the FBI started questioning criminals to do their profiles they didn't know that much about them either. The way they acquired at least some knowledge about them was by questioning them. That's how they became criminal profilers. The whole "science" of criminal profiling is based on questioning actual criminals.

There's also another problem with your view. So-called experts aren't necessarily experts because what they have learned, if anything, may be based more on what they studied in classrooms which may or not be true as well as preconceived notions of what makes a criminal tick that they have acquired. When you are an "expert" you may always find what you are looking for because that is what you expect to find even when it isn't actually there. If a criminal tells you something that is true you may reject it as a fabrication because it doesn't agree with what you already believe about the criminal mind or motivation.

The bottom line is that professionals and experts are not necessarily more aware of the truth in regard to criminals than a non-professional. Most likely the closest thing to a real expert are the non-professional criminals themselves and they sometimes don't even fully understand their behaviour other than to know that it got them put away. This society is full of myths about what makes criminals tick and even criminals can believe the bullshit. Some of that bullshit has come from so-called experts.
11/20/2019, 10:24 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


I learned a hundred times more out of the classroom than on the job, I would imagine I'm not unusual, what you learn in a classroom is only the beginning. People get other persons MO after years of experience. Unless they are a total jerk, they most certainly do know more than Joe Blow. You may slight the professional and there expertise/experience and I'm not neglecting those who shouldn't be in such professions, that however is true for all professions but it does not mean they share equality with non professionals, that is absurd. They recognize certain behaviors as a constant and criminals present a behavior which I get you as the non criminal understand criminal behavior, right....
12/3/2019, 4:22 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


I understand criminal behaviour fairly well, katie, because my view of what makes them tick is primarily based on their behaviour itself, not on questionable ideas like that one about them being abused as kids turning them into criminals.

When people harm other people to get something they want it isn't because they have a low opinion of themselves due to being abused as children. It's because they have a very high opinion of both themselves and what they want combined with a low opinion of their victims. Or simply a lack of concern or respect for their victims.

That's fairly obvious just from the crimes they commit. Why would they harm someone else if not for their own agenda which means more to them than their victim?

It's when professionals like profilers make assumptions about them based on concepts they already have that they come up short in understanding them. Being a professional in some relevant field is no guarantee that you will be very good at understanding criminals.

Last edited by Philer, 12/4/2019, 1:57 am
12/4/2019, 1:52 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


You are making assumptions, by reading online, books and tv, more than likely with a handful that agree with you. Doesn't count. There is a list as long as your arm why people do what they do and no I don't think every gross crime is committed by someone who is mentally ill. You talk about behaviour, are you a behavioral scientist, a genetic scientist. Much now is diagnosed on far more than behavior.
12/5/2019, 2:20 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

You are making assumptions, by reading online, books and tv, more than likely with a handful that agree with you. Doesn't count. There is a list as long as your arm why people do what they do and no I don't think every gross crime is committed by someone who is mentally ill. You talk about behaviour, are you a behavioral scientist, a genetic scientist. Much now is diagnosed on far more than behavior.



No, what I believe about criminals is not based on what I've read of other person's opinions about them. Many times those opinions have been wrong. As I said, my view of them is based on the behaviour of criminals, not theories about it that I've read about.

It's pretty obvious or should be to most people that criminals are people who are selfish and highly motivated to get what they want at the expense of other people. That's the basic nature of criminals.

They are not poor lost souls who were abused and driven to commit their crimes by that abuse nor are they people who suddenly lose control of themselves, going against their own moral principles, who start attacking other people or committing other crimes because they can't help it.

Both of those ideas aren't just wrong. They are also dangerous because they create a foundation for believing that at least some criminals, including violent ones, are not really to blame for what they do. The reality is that they are as much to blame for their behaviour as any selfish person is for doing anything that qualifies as selfish.
12/5/2019, 3:44 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Based on behavior? That is superficial especially from afar and lack of education. That is like reading a movie star magazine and "knowing" anything about that person!
12/7/2019, 2:22 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Re: The Joker strikes again!


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

Based on behavior? That is superficial especially from afar and lack of education. That is like reading a movie star magazine and "knowing" anything about that person!



Not at all. Their behaviour is the best guide to understanding criminals. It shows us what is important to them as well as what isn't.

They can lie about things like why they did what they did and whether they lost control of themselves but their behaviour doesn't lie. It always tells the truth. It shows us their agenda.
12/7/2019, 4:11 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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