Philer
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Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
It seems they have a difference of opinion about church worship services being essential services. Trump says they are while the governor and mayor say otherwise.
My question: if they were essential services why haven't churches been open all along like other essential services and places? It appears that church worship services can't be too essential.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/5/22/21267936/churches-lori-lightfoot-donald-trump-coronavirus-covid-worship
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5/23/2020, 1:06 am
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Rigby5
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
Interesting question, but lets say for example someone wanted to open the Church of the COVID-19, where they consider the virus to be God? I don't really see a way to interfere with that?
I would not go, but it is really no different than the mandatory lock down that considers the virus to be the devil?
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5/23/2020, 2:32 am
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Philer
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
quote: Rigby5 wrote:
Interesting question, but lets say for example someone wanted to open the Church of the COVID-19, where they consider the virus to be God? I don't really see a way to interfere with that?
I would not go, but it is really no different than the mandatory lock down that considers the virus to be the devil?
The federal government can allow the states to restrict church services of any kind involving large gatherings of people in one location and even ban them completely during this pandemic. The First Amendment obviously doesn't prevent that.
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5/23/2020, 3:47 am
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Rigby5
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
quote: Philer wrote:
quote: Rigby5 wrote:
Interesting question, but lets say for example someone wanted to open the Church of the COVID-19, where they consider the virus to be God? I don't really see a way to interfere with that?
I would not go, but it is really no different than the mandatory lock down that considers the virus to be the devil?
The federal government can allow the states to restrict church services of any kind involving large gatherings of people in one location and even ban them completely during this pandemic. The First Amendment obviously doesn't prevent that.
I disagree.
I do not there there legally can be any federal laws that apply at all.
There can be state laws to prevent anyone, including a religion, from harming the rights of others, and that includes spreading an illness,
But that would not allow the state to prevent church members from voluntarily doing whatever they want to each other, such as deliberately getting infected, if hey want,
So the state is doing it wrong.
They can not legally prevent the services.
They can however require a 14 day quarantine of those who go to the services, perhaps?
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5/23/2020, 3:45 pm
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Geezess
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
Trump has no authority over opening churches. What's he going to do about it ?
MAGA = Dump Trump.
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5/23/2020, 4:12 pm
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Philer
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
quote: Rigby5 wrote:
quote: Philer wrote:
quote: Rigby5 wrote:
Interesting question, but lets say for example someone wanted to open the Church of the COVID-19, where they consider the virus to be God? I don't really see a way to interfere with that?
I would not go, but it is really no different than the mandatory lock down that considers the virus to be the devil?
The federal government can allow the states to restrict church services of any kind involving large gatherings of people in one location and even ban them completely during this pandemic. The First Amendment obviously doesn't prevent that.
I disagree.
I do not there there legally can be any federal laws that apply at all.
There can be state laws to prevent anyone, including a religion, from harming the rights of others, and that includes spreading an illness,
But that would not allow the state to prevent church members from voluntarily doing whatever they want to each other, such as deliberately getting infected, if hey want,
So the state is doing it wrong.
They can not legally prevent the services.
They can however require a 14 day quarantine of those who go to the services, perhaps?
The states can legally prevent the services to keep people from being infected both among the church goers and others they might infect, people who did not choose to go to the church services. A 14 day quarantine would only be more problematic and totally unnecessary when you could prevent people from going to the church services in the first place.
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5/23/2020, 7:40 pm
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Philer
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
quote: Geezess wrote:
Trump has no authority over opening churches. What's he going to do about it ?
MAGA = Dump Trump.
I agree that he has no legal authority. When he talks about opening up the churches in states whether the states want them to be or not he's talking as if he believes he's some kind of a dictator with power he doesn't have.
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5/23/2020, 7:42 pm
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Geezess
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
My question: if they were essential services did Trump and his family go to church today ?
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5/24/2020, 4:22 pm
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katie5445
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
Going to church for Trump is probably worse than a root canal.
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5/25/2020, 1:21 am
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Rigby5
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump
While US presidents have no legal authority to open churches, governors and mayors have not authority to close them either.
The most governors and mayors could do is to then separate those who did go to the church services, from others.
The only authority for governors and mayors comes from when they are acting in defense of others, because then they are borrowing delegated power from those rights they are defending.
For example, what if the church members live together?
That is common with monasteries or nunneries.
Then clearly there would be no legal basis for them not also having religious services together.
The powers claimed by thee governors and mayors likely does not exist.
Nor is COVID-19 nearly as significant as people are pretending for some reason. With death rates no different than bi-decade epidemics like Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, MERS, Swine flu, etc.
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5/25/2020, 4:20 pm
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