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Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

While US presidents have no legal authority to open churches, governors and mayors have not authority to close them either.

The most governors and mayors could do is to then separate those who did go to the church services, from others.
The only authority for governors and mayors comes from when they are acting in defense of others, because then they are borrowing delegated power from those rights they are defending.

For example, what if the church members live together?
That is common with monasteries or nunneries.
Then clearly there would be no legal basis for them not also having religious services together.

The powers claimed by thee governors and mayors likely does not exist.
Nor is COVID-19 nearly as significant as people are pretending for some reason. With death rates no different than bi-decade epidemics like Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, MERS, Swine flu, etc.



When governors and mayors seek to close churches they are acting to defend people. They don't do so arbitrarily because they don't like churches and want to punish people who go to them.



There is no authority to defend people against their will.
After going to church, you could prevent them from returning from church for 14 days, but you can not legally stop them from going to church. Intent is irrelevant in this case, because it involes religion, which is personal.
5/31/2020, 1:24 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

While US presidents have no legal authority to open churches, governors and mayors have not authority to close them either.

The most governors and mayors could do is to then separate those who did go to the church services, from others.
The only authority for governors and mayors comes from when they are acting in defense of others, because then they are borrowing delegated power from those rights they are defending.

For example, what if the church members live together?
That is common with monasteries or nunneries.
Then clearly there would be no legal basis for them not also having religious services together.

The powers claimed by thee governors and mayors likely does not exist.
Nor is COVID-19 nearly as significant as people are pretending for some reason. With death rates no different than bi-decade epidemics like Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, MERS, Swine flu, etc.



"What if church members live together." It is the same when families live together and has nothing to do with church. The same would be true for monasteries and nunneries, We lock down with the people we live with. You are mistaken with the number of deaths with flu, SARS and MERS. especially SARS and MERS which ended up compared to this as a big zero, especially in this country, check it out and the numbers. The numbers reported on CNN with those diagnosed and the deaths is far higher.



COVID-19 has a death rate of less than 1.3%
While SARS has a death rate of 15%, which is over 10 times higher.
MERS has a death rate of 34.4%, which is more like 25 times more deadly.

The numbers who get it are pretty much irrelevant, because that is always due to mistakes in policies.
No one has to ever be infected with anything, as infection is always preventable.
And the whole point is that the "lock down" strategy increased the infection total by keeping it around longer than necessary.
5/31/2020, 1:33 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump


quote:

There is no authority to defend people against their will.-Rigby



That seems to be the principle the government is operating on when they require people to press charges against criminals who have harmed them in some way before they will arrest the criminals. But at the same time the government is not constitutionally or otherwise legally required to follow that principle and does not do so in fighting the "war on drugs." It never requires anyone to press charges before arresting drug users or dealers.

The reality is that the government has a right to arrest people whenever they are doing things that pose a threat to innocent people even when nobody presses charges against them or as you put it, when defending someone is against their will. Unfortunately in the case of the "war on drugs" the government becomes the entity that is posing a threat to the innocent. People like Breonna Taylor.

quote:

After going to church, you could prevent them from returning from church for 14 days, but you can not legally stop them from going to church. Intent is irrelevant in this case, because it involes religion, which is personal.



It is personal and a matter of religion to deny a child medical attention based on your Christian Scientist beliefs but the government still has a right to intervene to protect the child.
5/31/2020, 2:01 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
katie5445 Profile
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Re: Illinois governor and Chicago mayor defy Trump


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

While US presidents have no legal authority to open churches, governors and mayors have not authority to close them either.

The most governors and mayors could do is to then separate those who did go to the church services, from others.
The only authority for governors and mayors comes from when they are acting in defense of others, because then they are borrowing delegated power from those rights they are defending.

For example, what if the church members live together?
That is common with monasteries or nunneries.
Then clearly there would be no legal basis for them not also having religious services together.

The powers claimed by thee governors and mayors likely does not exist.
Nor is COVID-19 nearly as significant as people are pretending for some reason. With death rates no different than bi-decade epidemics like Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, MERS, Swine flu, etc.



"What if church members live together." It is the same when families live together and has nothing to do with church. The same would be true for monasteries and nunneries, We lock down with the people we live with. You are mistaken with the number of deaths with flu, SARS and MERS. especially SARS and MERS which ended up compared to this as a big zero, especially in this country, check it out and the numbers. The numbers reported on CNN with those diagnosed and the deaths is far higher.



COVID-19 has a death rate of less than 1.3%
While SARS has a death rate of 15%, which is over 10 times higher.
MERS has a death rate of 34.4%, which is more like 25 times more deadly.

The numbers who get it are pretty much irrelevant, because that is always due to mistakes in policies.
No one has to ever be infected with anything, as infection is always preventable.
And the whole point is that the "lock down" strategy increased the infection total by keeping it around longer than necessary.



Your'e statistics on SARS/MERS are irrevelant for this country, just over 8,000 cases of SARS, 20 something in the US with no deaths with MERS, 2 cases, no deaths. The lockdown strategy decreased the numbers. It is about immunity and the western world cannot tolerate much of what the rest of the world can, it why as you mentioned, people come out of hospital and sometimes go in with what they didn't go in for. It is why Mexicans can leave mayonnaise out in a hundred degree temp spread it on a torta and not get sick and we will get very sick, it is why when Americans go to Asian countries, they get seriously ill on street food. It is why doctors stopped prescribing antibiotics in this country for every sniffle, so we could build up our immunity.
6/2/2020, 12:47 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 


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