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Rigby5 Profile
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

mais oui wrote:

msdulittle his actions were certainly inhumane, and reprehensible and a whole lot of other things but that isnt really the question, courts dont - or at least shouldnt deal with matters of humanity or morality they should deal with matters of law.


Failure to report a crime or knowledge of a death or burn injury

None of which applies in this case, there was no crime, but even if there was he was the guilty party are you telling me that criminals get charged with not reporting their crime?

he didnt know she was dead - he left the scene she could have easily swam to the shore and walked home cold and wet but not dead.

given that she was bobbing around in the English channel a burn injury seems unlikely


quote:

Anyone so messed up he was unable to help, would not have gone out by the water



that is a little like saying any one totally drunk would know better than to attempt to drive a car when there is a wealth of evidence that totally drunk people very often attempt to drive a car



quote:

And anyone trying to help someone would not be at risk of arrest for being high.


 
being high isnt even an offence but if your head is messed up with very high levels of alcohol, cocaine and cannabis (as was the case here) you are probably not thinking too straight




The wording of the law includes knowledge of the imminent possibility of death.

Driving can be harder than people realize under alcohol, but if he was able to get back to the bar, that is a lot harder than telling someone to get help.
He could not have been that messed up if he got out on the water and back again. Your comparison to drunk driving would only make sense if he had also fallen in.

It does not matter if how messed up your head is. If you can prevent yourself from falling in, you realize what danger is and that the woman needed help.
1/28/2017, 5:40 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

The wording of the law includes knowledge of the imminent possibility of death.



so you should report people crossing busy roads?

quote:

if he was able to get back to the bar, that is a lot harder than telling someone to get help.




its not about physical difficulty but the ability to intellectually process


Your comparison to drunk driving would only make sense if he had also fallen in.

It was you who raised the issue
quote:

Anyone so messed up he was unable to help, would not have gone out by the water



which suggests that you think that some one so messed up would still be able to make drational decisions about not onlt their own safety but the safety of another - incidentally we dont know how drunk the victim was the media has chosen not to mention it.


quote:

If you can prevent yourself from falling in



that just doesnt make sense, the fact that he didnt fall in might have nothing to do with his abilities and every thing to do with dumb luck

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1/28/2017, 10:15 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

He is quite simply a scumbag


agreed - but is he a criminal?

As far as I can find there is in UK law no requirement to render assistance although his failure to contact the emergency services may have worked against him - even though their arrival would almost certainly have been too late to save the girl


 
quote:

He seemed to have no regard for her at all which means that five years in prison for his negligent behavior is not unreasonable



In the other article I posted the man had a great deal of regard for the woman - he dived into the water and retrieved her unconscious body saving her from near certain death - and he is being branded a 'rapist'.


Does he have a legal requirement to 'have regard for' the girl - as far as I can see no such requirement exists




No, but he apparently had a legal requirement not to commit negligent homicide or manslaughter. A court could easily have taken him to have been responsible for the woman being in the water in the first place and then doing nothing about it without even being much concerned about his level of regard for her. His lack of concern for her though wouldn't have counted in his favor.
1/28/2017, 9:52 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


 
quote:

A court could easily have taken him to have been responsible for the woman being in the water in the first place and then doing nothing about it without even being much concerned about his level of regard for her.



why was he responsible for the woman being in the water?
Is it even clear that he was resposible for the woman being near the water?

Does the woman have no responsibility to keep herself safe (away from the water)?

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1/28/2017, 10:23 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

mais oui wrote:

quote:

what a load a crap.

she probably rejected him and he pushed her in the water and walked away.




I have seen no evidence at all to support that view.

quote:

The quote above refers to "no duty to come to the aid of another" and I can understand that. But does that mean they need not doing anything at all?




No duty of care means just that no obligation to do any thing.


quote:

Had not thought of that.
Seems to make more sense than any other explanation so far



actually it makes no sense at all no report of the trial that I have seen or heard makes any mention of him pushing her in or raping her or attacking her in any way.


While a person may have no legal compulsion to go to someone's aid, they are required to report crimes or accidents.


No they are not under any obligation to report a crime nor as previously discussed are they obliged to report an accident - road traffic accidents (in which you are actually involved) are different the Road Traffic Act says that if you are INVOLVED in an accident you must "stop" "remain" and "report" but if you merely witness an accident you need do nothing.



quote:

So then you have to suspect his motive



1)he was off his head on illegal drugs which may have clouded his judgement
2) he was off his head on illegal drugs and didnt want to get involved incase he ended up being prosecuted for that
3) he didnt know the girl, and felt he had no duty of care towards her



  your witness/evidence is a self serving drunk, who conveniently can't remember how she got in the water and supposedly waited three hours to work up the nerve in a bar
to tell the police " his version" of what happened.


  His story doesn't ring true.
 

sure you can believe him, and make him out to be the victim of over reaching laws. That's your choice.

Just remember prisons are full of people who did dumb things while intoxicated. They didn't get a pass either.

Last edited by snowpixie, 1/28/2017, 10:29 pm
1/28/2017, 10:23 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


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Just remember prisons are full of people who did dumb things while intoxicated. They didn't get a pass either.



You miss the point, he didnt do a 'dumb thing' he didnt do anything and neither was he required to do anything.

I know from your earlier posts that you think that there is some sort of plot by him to hide crime but there is no evidence to support that view, no evidence that he 'helped' her into the water, no evidence of any sexual assault, no evidence of any assault the sole act on which he stands accused is not assisting a drowning girl - something which (unless I am missing something) he was under no legal obligation to do.



Sure that makes him many unpleasant things but I dont think that a criminal is one of them

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1/28/2017, 10:42 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


  


i have two words for you. cognitive dissonance.

for some reason you are bent set on trying to justify his unjustifiable decision. Why?







1/28/2017, 11:14 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

mais oui wrote:

 
quote:

A court could easily have taken him to have been responsible for the woman being in the water in the first place and then doing nothing about it without even being much concerned about his level of regard for her.



why was he responsible for the woman being in the water?
Is it even clear that he was resposible for the woman being near the water?

Does the woman have no responsibility to keep herself safe (away from the water)?



Sure she does but people get close to the water all the time without it being particularly dangerous. Apparently in this case it was dangerous and he did nothing to either keep her from falling into the water nor anything to help her afterwards.

Maybe she was only near the water because she figured that it would be safe with him around. Regardless, he had an obligation to do something besides just walk away when she fell into the water. I see nothing wrong at all with him being charged with the crime of negligent homicide or manslaughter and locked up in prison.
1/28/2017, 11:41 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


quote:

i have two words for you. cognitive dissonance



what?

I dont excuse his actions I have already said that they are reprehensible I just question their illegality

quote:

for some reason you are bent set on trying to justify his unjustifiable decision. Why



I dont, I never have.
My point is entirely that he is being held criminally liable for something which as far as I can see is not illegal - you might argue that it should be illegal - and I would agree but you cannot convict someone of breaking a law that doesnt actually exist - even if you think it should exist.


I dont know how old you are but even if you dont remember it first hand Im sure you have heard of the death of Mary Jo Kopechne. A celebrated US case with similar facts, a man drove his car into the sea got out saving his own life but didnt report the accident for several hours (by which time his passenger Mary Jo was long dead) he was prosecuted for failing to report an motor accident NOT manslaughter.

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1/29/2017, 11:35 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: man jailed for manslaughter for not helping drowning girl


you know i just found out that he was originally arrested on suspicion of murder and was headed for trial for her murder
when he took a plea deal for manslaughter just before his murder trial started.

so, there you go. What i suspected all along.
Your point is moot, since he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2711270/michae-bowditch-manslaughter-ramsgate/#comments
1/29/2017, 12:53 pm Link to this post PM snowpixie Blog
 


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