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Rigby5 Profile
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Re: How to fix health care easily


quote:

katie5445 wrote:

Single payer, taken out of your paycheck on a sliding scale based on income. A large part of why our GDP is so high in health care compared to other countries are the administrative costs that are passed on by the insurer. That money could be put into the delivery of health care that Price mentioned, no budget, no delivery, it starts first with the budget and he was wrong that the delivery comes first as he suggests huge spending cuts.



I agree single payer is the way to go because it allows everyone to be under the single umbrella of the best price negotiations.

But first we have to break the strangle hold employer provided, 3rd party payer systems have. Since the current system is inherently unfair, it should be illegal. And it is bad tax laws that instead encourage it.
2/7/2017, 5:28 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: How to fix health care easily


Employer health insurance as a benefit started during FDR's term due to wage control. It encourages overcomsuption and hides costs to the consumer and if you lose your job more than likely you lose your health insurance.
2/7/2017, 5:37 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: How to fix health care easily


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katie5445 wrote:

Employer health insurance as a benefit started during FDR's term due to wage control. It encourages overcomsuption and hides costs to the consumer and if you lose your job more than likely you lose your health insurance.



There is no single one event, but a continuum.
But WWII wage controls was a big one.

{...
Employment-based health benefit programs have existed in the United States for more than 100 years. In the 1870s, for example, railroad, mining, and other industries began to provide the services of company doctors to workers. In 1910, Montgomery Ward entered into one of the earliest group insurance contracts. Prior to World War II, few Americans had health insurance, and most policies covered only hospital room, board, and ancillary services. During World War II, the number of persons with employment-based health insurance coverage started to increase for several reasons. When wages were frozen by the National War Labor Board and a shortage of workers occurred, employers sought ways to get around the wage controls in order to attract scarce workers, and offering health insurance was one option. Health insurance was an attractive means to recruit and retain workers during a labor shortage for two reasons: Unions supported employment-based health insurance, and workers' health benefits were not subject to income tax or Social Security payroll taxes, as were cash wages.
Under the current tax code, health insurance premiums paid by employers are deductible for employers as a business expense, and are excluded, without limit, from workers' taxable income.

Below is a compilation of key dates in the history of health insurance benefits as they have evolved in the United States.

1789—Congress establishes the U.S. Marine Hospital Service. The service was funded by compulsory contributions from seamen's wages.
1847—The Massachusetts Health Insurance Company of Boston becomes the first insurer to issue sickness insurance.
1849—New York passes the first general insurance law.
1853—French mutual aid society, La Societe Francaise de Bienfaisance Mutuelle, establishes prepaid hospital care plan in San Francisco.
1863—The Travelers Insurance Company of Hartford, CT, offers accident insurance for railway mishaps (followed by other forms of accident insurance). Travelers was the first to issue insurance resembling today's policies.
1870s—Railroad, mining, and other industries begin to provide company doctors funded by deductions from workers' wages.
1877—Granite Cutters Union establishes first national sick benefit program.
1910—Montgomery Ward & Co. enters into one of the earliest group insurance contracts.
1910s—Physician service and industrial health plans established in the Northwest and remote areas.
1912—National Convention of Insurance Commissioners (now the National Association of Insurance Commissioners) develops first model for state law, the Standard Provisions Law, for regulating health insurance.
1913—International Ladies Garment Workers Union (ILGWU) begins first union medical services.
1915-1920s—Efforts to establish compulsory health insurance programs fail in 16 states.
1929—A group of schoolteachers arranges for Baylor Hospital in Dallas, TX, to provide room, board, and specified services at a predetermined monthly cost. This plan is considered the forerunner of Blue Cross plans.
1937—Blue Cross Commission established.
1939—Revenue Act of 1939 (Sec. 104), establishes employee tax exclusion for compensation for injuries, sickness, or both received under workers' compensation, accident, or health insurance.
1943—War Labor Board rules wage freeze does not apply to fringe benefits.
1945—Kaiser Foundation Health Plan opens to non-Kaiser groups.
1948—McCarran-Ferguson Act gives states broad power to regulate insurance.
1949—Supreme Court upholds National Labor Relations Board ruling that employee benefits are subject to collective bargaining.
1954—Revenue Act of 1954 (Sec. 106) excludes from taxation employers' contributions to accident and health plans benefiting employees, and clarifies that such contributions had always been deductible as business expenses.
1965—Medicare and Medicaid legislation passed as Title XVIII and Title XIX of the Social Security Act.
1968—Firestone Tire and Rubber Co. begins to self-fund health benefits.
1973—Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) Act of 1973 establishes benefit, administrative, financial, and contractual requirements for entities seeking designation as federally qualified HMOs. The act also requires most employers who offer an HMO to offer a federally qualified HMO.
...}

link
2/7/2017, 6:01 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: How to fix health care easily


 I know but I'm starting at 1937, Blue Cross Commission was formed before then it was fairly insignificant for the general population.
2/7/2017, 6:40 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Single payer design does not cover those that do not pay in or becomes a subsidy for those that will not or do not pay in thru wages. How does one tax single payer for contractors earning from gross proceeds performing work? This entails hardships that no on here seems to rationalize such as costs escalation due to rises in expense to pay single payer with loss of purchase power due to those cost associated to wage losses from tax as single payer. This remains a double edged sword as much as health insurance from private parties. Then there are the losses to insurance companies, do they just close their doors and lay off thousands when a single payer system is emplaced?
2/8/2017, 10:51 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
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Re: How to fix health care easily


Everyone is under one umbrella, including medicaid, there are persons on medicaid who work, who are paying nothing due to the poverty level of income, they would also pay on the sliding scale. Private insurance would not be gone, you can still buy and so could your employer if you choose. France has 3 tier groups paying anywhere from 70%-100%, they have inexpensive secondary insurance as we do in medicare. There are many ways to do it. Many nurses work for insurance companies and many skilled health care employees that can be used in many areas of the health care field and you set aside money for program to integrate them into other jobs where needed.
2/8/2017, 5:11 pm Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 
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Single payer design does not cover those that do not pay in or becomes a subsidy for those that will not or do not pay in thru wages. How does one tax single payer for contractors earning from gross proceeds performing work? This entails hardships that no on here seems to rationalize such as costs escalation due to rises in expense to pay single payer with loss of purchase power due to those cost associated to wage losses from tax as single payer. This remains a double edged sword as much as health insurance from private parties. Then there are the losses to insurance companies, do they just close their doors and lay off thousands when a single payer system is emplaced?




Should a person who is temporarily unemployed then have no health care access?
What difference should it make how much money a person makes or pays in taxes, as to their health care access?

We did not have much health insurance at all until the late 1960s, so it seems to me we did better without it.

When taxes pay for health care instead of insurance, than it benefits everyone.
The uniform single payer not only slashes the paperwork overhead, but also allows for fair and the lowest possible charges. Typically single payer reduces medical costs by over half. We would all save a whole lot of money. No one pays more. We all pay less.
2/8/2017, 7:03 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: How to fix health care easily


How to fix our health care? Never get sick.

---
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Long live the Free Territory of Trieste (1947 - 1954)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6X97qXOdE
2/8/2017, 11:41 pm Link to this post PM GoHawk Blog
 
cooter50 Profile
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Re: How to fix health care easily


Medicaid for those that become unemployed still an option as are Cobra plans so insured remain insured during short lapses in employ. Yet I fall back to those of decent health that do not 'Need' health visits. Do they have to pay and pay for no services rendered as well? And if you buy or company provided insurance does that person still have to pay on that sliding scale? Seems a bit one sided and as such many employers would back away from health care plans due to expense unnecessary leaving again large companies with little income and layoffs. BTW have any here a 401K, or a retirement account brokered for them? Many if not a great deal of the retirement plans are financed thru insurance companies as annuities, are you willing to see those slump on lost income to those companies?
2/9/2017, 2:01 am Link to this post PM cooter50 Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: How to fix health care easily


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cooter50 wrote:

Medicaid for those that become unemployed still an option as are Cobra plans so insured remain insured during short lapses in employ. Yet I fall back to those of decent health that do not 'Need' health visits. Do they have to pay and pay for no services rendered as well? And if you buy or company provided insurance does that person still have to pay on that sliding scale? Seems a bit one sided and as such many employers would back away from health care plans due to expense unnecessary leaving again large companies with little income and layoffs. BTW have any here a 401K, or a retirement account brokered for them? Many if not a great deal of the retirement plans are financed thru insurance companies as annuities, are you willing to see those slump on lost income to those companies?




Medicaid does not cover those who are unemployed. About the only people covered by Medicaid are single women who have dependent children, or are disabled.

Cobra is ridiculous, and no one I know has ever used it. I looked into it, and they wanted over $900/month per person.

I have never in my life required any significant medical care. Just stitches a couple of times.
Yet towards health insurance, I have been forced to pay about $1000/month, for the last 40 years. That is almost half a million dollars I have paid in.

The point is to get employers out of health care entirely. They are the ones totally screwing it up. Its like the company towns coal mines started in the 1890s. Disreputable.

And no, the insurance companies existed long before health insurance was common, and they will have the same investment profitability long after private health care insurance is long gone. However, I would never put 401k money into insurance company mutual funds. You can just buy any stock you want, or like I did, you can set up an LLC and invest anyway you want. I purchased rental properties.

The savings to everyone would be so great if we switched to single payer, that it would benefit everyone. It would likely greatly boost our GDP and make us more competitive globally. The current system is so wasteful, it is killing our whole economy.
2/9/2017, 5:40 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 


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