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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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It is not the gun, it is the caliber of the gun. You can't kill someone with a derringer but you can stop them at least for a period of time. It is like a puncture wound




yes a .22 can kill - but you have to be either lucky or extremely accurate with bullet placement.

I know people who have been shot by a .22 none of them claim that it was particularly painful at the time (hurt like hell later!).
the main advantage of .22 is that the person you are shooting at doesnt know its a .22 and (with a full sized pistol) youi can fire off a lot of shots in quick succession scaring the hell out of your assailant.
A derringer removes both these features firstly you have two shots and since its a derringer its pretty obvious that you have just two shots and its a good bet that its just a .22 - they are uncommonly available in larger sizes but given the size of the gun I dont imaging that firing a larger size bullet is a very pleasant experience.

seriously given the choice between a derringer and a can of pepper spray Id go for the pepper spray every time!


man shot in head (.22) doesnt realise until FIVE YEARS LATER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCrihTj3T58

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12/12/2019, 11:14 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


Image

the above in .38 special (just a little less powerful than .357 magnum) is available in the UK (yes I was surprised too) but you can have my share of firing it - as you can see even with small hands you can only hold it with two fingers

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12/12/2019, 5:54 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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katie5445 wrote:

That is a generalization and your dislike of the states. We are approximately the same size as Canada, they have a population of around 38 million, the US over 327 million. We have a Constitution that started out as human rights and became law written in stone. Moving govt is like watching catcus grow. We became far to powerful to fast and did not suffer the growing pains other countries did for centuries. Most here live a life far different from others and not 2nd and 3rd world countries but 1st world countries, it taints many persons views into greed, selfishness and obilivious to the plight of others or even how others live in a western world with far less "stuff" and not requiring huge homes, which seem to include a bedroom, bath for every child, a man cave, a sewing room, a play room and a 3 car garage, huge outdoor space and a view and when in their 20's, that is killing this country. The first 13 yrs. of my life, 5 in the family, 2 bed, 1 bath, less than 900 sq. feet and those younger than me, thought I was in a hovel, not true, typical.



I do dislike certain aspects of American life - mostly involved in their penchant for killing people - but not all. The second amendment may very well be the ruin of America.
12/12/2019, 6:37 pm Link to this post PM Yobbo
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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mais oui wrote:

quote:

Derringers are the guns most used in crime? I doubt it. I never hear of derringers being used in crimes



I mean small cheap low calibre weapons

If you literally mean derringer (a two shot double barrel pistol) then no they probably arent used a lot in crime - largely because there are almost useless!
(being shot by a derringer would just make most people angry!)


quote:

but serious mental illnesses tend to develop early



1) what is serious mental illness?
2) how early is early (you can legally buy a rifle at 18 and a handgun at 21)



Women could easily defend themselves with a derringer, including one that fires 22 calibre slugs. You're greatly underestimating their destructive capability when fired from such a weapon at close range.

A serious mental illness is schizophrenia, particularly paranoid schizophrenia, perhaps the one most relevant to violent criminal activity.
12/12/2019, 8:32 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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katie5445 wrote:

It is not the gun, it is the caliber of the gun. You can't kill someone with a derringer but you can stop them at least for a period of time. It is like a puncture wound, nail through your foot, a serious dog bite, it hurts alot. .22 handguns can come in the same larger size as a derringer and it can kill someone or seriously disable them. Women I know with a handgun, choose a .38, they aren't messing around. I think saying "society"doesn't care about women is ridiculous. We are vulnerable, all of us, whether we are just going to the grocery store to a nightclub, it's a given fact and we are often on our own, which makes us more vulnerable and we can't have minders every step of the way. I do agree with you Philer we do need to do more to protect ourselves but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to pack a gun either.



Of course you can kill someone with a derringer. They are not toys. Women could easily defend themselves effectively with one and it is almost astonishing that so few women have ever used one to do so in this country. It really is a testament to how little this society cares about women and their safety.

BTW, derringers can use all sorts of ammo of various calibres. Some will handle 410 shotgun shells.

12/12/2019, 8:42 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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Of course you can kill someone with a derringer.



I dont think that any one said otherwise! BUT you only have two shots to do it with a small inaccurate underpowered weapon


quote:

derringers can use all sorts of ammo of various calibres. Some will handle 410 shotgun shells.



that (at any sort of range) have even less power than a .22.

If you are going to be armed it makes no sense at all not to be armed with the best possible weapon.

Scarcely any bigger than a derringer is a model 60 five shot revolver .38spl /.357 magnum

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12/13/2019, 12:14 am Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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I dont think that any one said otherwise! BUT you only have two shots to do it with a small inaccurate underpowered weapon-mais



Katie did, "You can't kill someone with a derringer..."

And underpowered or not, a derringer is easily capable of being very useful for self-defense. For example, you could easily stop a predatory criminal who was choking you by simply firing into any part of their body. Just the shock and pain alone would probably result in them letting you go. Firing into their abdomen or chest would provide added assurance of that happening.

It could also kill them but if they were choking you it would definitely be a case of self-defense. You might have trouble proving that to the authorities but surviving is a higher priority than avoiding prison.
12/15/2019, 6:09 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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If you are going to be armed it makes no sense at all not to be armed with the best possible weapon.

Scarcely any bigger than a derringer is a model 60 five shot revolver .38spl /.357 magnum-mais



It makes a lot more sense than not being armed at all. Also a derringer is easier and more convenient to carry and conceal.

But if a woman concerned with her power to defend herself opts for a more powerful revolver that's fine. They obviously could be very effective also and might be the better kind of weapon under some circumstances, including multiple assailants.
12/15/2019, 6:22 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


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a derringer is easier and more convenient to carry and conceal.



why would you want to conceal it, surely concealing it removes any deterrent value

Image

scarcely any bigger than a Derringer at Barrel length is 2.06 inches (5.2 cm), and weight is 11.5 ounces

but with a 6 round magazine it has three times the fire power

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12/16/2019, 3:36 pm Link to this post PM mais oui Blog
 
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Re: New Zealand vs the US in the matter of gun control


Why wouldn't you want to conceal it knowing what has happened to some cops who had their guns taken away from them and used against them? I'm happy with the deterrent value of the gun after an attack has begun. The noise of gunfire alone would likely generate enough deterrent to persuade the criminal to back off assuming he still could.

That little gun does look pretty good as a weapon which women could carry. It's a little larger than a derringer but still small enough to easily carry and conceal.

It's reliability might be the only reason to give it a pass. It's an automatic and they are sometimes not very reliable. I know because I bought one which I got rid of because of its unreliability.
12/18/2019, 1:14 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 


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