10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species: https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/t2295 Runboard| 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species: en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:42:40 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:42:40 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30537,from=rss#post30537https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30537,from=rss#post30537Yes but those parents are dominated by each of their parents and so on backwards. That is how you get kids whose family claim they came from the postman or milkman or were adopted. My own cousin is brown eyed in a family of blue eyes, he got a lot of teasing which until recently I didn't know hurt his feelings and pissed him off, although I wasn't one of the teasers.nondisclosed_email@example.com (katie5445)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 19:34:59 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30531,from=rss#post30531https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30531,from=rss#post30531... and every humanoid child's genotype is dominated by the dominate genes of it parents, too. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 19:08:22 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30527,from=rss#post30527https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30527,from=rss#post30527there is no missing link there never was there are a myriad gradations between fully ape and fully human - no ape ever gave birth to a human child. nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 18:55:20 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30513,from=rss#post30513https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30513,from=rss#post30513I dont think that we do have "Neanderthal genes" I think that we have genes in common with Neanderthals, (we have some of the same genes BUT importantly we didnt get them from Neanderthals)" That is not what the science suggests because Africans, South Asian and Aussie Aborigines (I think) who did not do not mix with them or their mostly white descendants do have have those gene sequences, while the highest % of Neanderthal genes occur where there was the the potential to mix with them. However I see your point, and have thought that with those "10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species" we do't have good DNA samples from the very ancient groups, so even if humans carry their genes, still, we just see them as typical homo sapien genes. That is really my point, too, as what was once thought of a different species has prove really, to be just a different "race" of the same species, that suggests that it was much the same for all the various "extinct" species, because why would they not have still been as genetically viable with their contemporary but more biological successful group that they encountered, just like with the Neanderthal ? The small isolated "races" disappearing, like poof, gone from the fossil record is explained by how in blink of eye, in geological terms, they interbreed and so disappeared. Rose is right about the missing link thing, and my point was that what I'm suggesting explains why it can never be found ... or has been, kinda, thinking of Lucy, found in great rift valley, but think it over, will future biased scientist call the our current races different specifies ? But how hard would be to both find identify mixed race children as being "a missing link" .    nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 18:11:38 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30462,from=rss#post30462https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30462,from=rss#post30462I read that the so-called "missing link" is not science but journalism as it was invented by an English yellow journalist to belittle Darwin's theory.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Noserose)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 11:31:25 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30460,from=rss#post30460https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30460,from=rss#post30460quote:My contention that, just like with homo sapiens and the Neanderthals, seem different specifies based on Victorian observational science, prove in fact to be the same species, by definition , because we still carry some some Neanderthal gene sequences meaning that half and half offspring must have been viable and did in fact pas down their genes. but this is not the only way in which we might have acquired "Neanderthal genes" . I dont think that we do have "Neanderthal genes" I think that we have genes in common with Neanderthals, (we have some of the same genes BUT importantly we didnt get them from Neanderthals) We and Neanderthals share a common ancestor that ancestor gave the same genes to both branches of the family tree some lingered some were lost it just so happens that some of the genes which lingered in Neanderthals also lingered in modern (non African) humans. In much the same way a horse and a donkey share common genes but that is not because they have previously mated rather it is because they share a common ancestor. we share much (very much) of our DNA with the Bonobo chimp which we seem to have acquired without any messy physical interactions! Neanderthals (and all other homo) had 48 chromosomes humans have 46  for a mating to be successful you need an even number in the offspring 24+23 = 47 (not an even number!) Much depends of course on when humans fused 2 chromosomes into a single chromosome if this occurred comparatively recently -(say within the last 70 000 years) - then it is possible but I remain unconvincednondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 11:08:20 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30459,from=rss#post30459https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30459,from=rss#post30459"IF humans mated with a now extinct branch of the genus 'Homo' and IF that mating resulted in live offspring those offspring were probably infertile and being so would be incapable of passing on any genes from the non human ancestor." My contention that, just like with homo sapiens and the Neanderthals, seem different specifies based on Victorian observational science, prove in fact to be the same species, by definition , because we still carry some some Neanderthal gene sequences meaning that half and half offspring must have been viable and did in fact pas down their genes. Why should it not be same when other humanoid subgroups so contemporaries met ? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 10:40:30 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30453,from=rss#post30453https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30453,from=rss#post30453quote:But when the environment of the European mouse was changed to the Canary Islands I dont believe that the environment of Madeira is significantly different to that of Spain or Portugal - where the mice probably originated. doubtless the small population size and genetic isolation speeded the process (the 'island effect') quote:But, like horses and donkeys, can produce not viable but still live of spring ? yes live offspring but offspring which are incapable of passing down the genes of their horse ancestor IF humans mated with a now extinct branch of the genus 'Homo' and IF that mating resulted in live offspring those offspring were probably infertile and being so would be incapable of passing on any genes from the non human ancestor. quote:If so or if not, the life expectancy of mice compared to equines is so rapid that comparing things in any terms besides generations passed , is not equatable, really is it ? the life span has little to do with it beyond increasing the number of generations in a fixed period of time, the change (in the Madeira mouse) from 40 chromosomes to 22 may have happened in steps or it may have occurred as a single event (I dont know) But it must have occurred in several individuals at the same time other wise it could not be passed on. If it occurred in a single mouse and that mouse tried to breed with a 'normal' mouse the offspring either would not happen or would be infertile. Madeira mouse would pass on 11 chromosomes the 'normal mouse' would pass on 20 20 +11 =31 this is not a viable number (it MUST always to an even number for the offspring to be viable and fertile) so a single Madeira mouse could not pass on its genes in a population of non Madeira micenondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 10:17:22 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30438,from=rss#post30438https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30438,from=rss#post30438But when the environment of the European mouse was changed to the Canary Islands, first how many European mise orginally introduced ... off ships, no doubt, were there, and it was exactly the kind of radical environment change that can favor beneficial mutations (like to heat tolerance as a off the wall example ... pure guess, okay. ) But still it a case where something that didn't matter, a minority banal recessive genetic quirk that in a bigger population did not matter, suddenly was critical. Then only those mice with survived, but for a while were just a subspecies, until the adapted mice adapted more, and became a different specifies, not just a different 'race' of mice, so they were no longer able to produce viable offspring. But, like horses and donkeys, can produce not viable but still live offspring ? Oh, where is the bright idea emoticon ? If so or if not, the life expectancy of mice compared to equines is so rapid that comparing things in any terms besides generations passed , is not equatable, really is it ? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Fri, 03 Nov 2017 01:37:24 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30424,from=rss#post30424https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30424,from=rss#post30424after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution we have yet to lose our appendix or the muscles which raise our body hairs in a futile attempt to us keep warm so our pinky toes are safe for the foreseeable future! On our carrying of extinct human DNA, did we get it from our extinct cousins (with whom we may not even have been able to breed*) or from a common ancestor? as I said earlier one definition of a species is the inability to mate outside the species and produce FERTILE off spring, lions can breed with tigers horses can breed with donkeys but in both cases (and almost all similar cases)the offspring is infertilenondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:30:52 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30421,from=rss#post30421https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30421,from=rss#post30421quote:Rigby5 wrote: I agree. It depends a lot on if you count the mutation part or not into the evolution, since that is the slow part. And I agree the natural selection part can happen in just a few generations possibly. The smaller the gene pool, the faster natural selection can manifest. So Ms. mais qui, the mutation aspect of driving evolution really only come into play with an extreme change in the environment where some otherwise unimportant gene sequence confers a real tangle value on its bearer's survival and biological suggest. But the misconceptions about the reality is that we, still, are all evolving slowly, collectively, too. The misconception that evolution only happens when a mutation confers a tangle advantage is the extreme biological example. It only happens when there is an extreme evolutionary, bottleneck, too, right ? Never mind the effects of social advancement, like air travel making world smaller, so how it results in more race mixing might be positive and evolution effect, meanwhile, we, collectively are loosing out little toes, slowly. So it goes. I'm guess if civilization survives, so will we without our pink toes. Say goodbye to pinky toes | SiOWfa14 Science in Our World: Certainty ... https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa14/2014/09/18/say-goodbye-to-pinky-toes/ BTW if there really are 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species, not 10 Mysterious distinct "Extinct" Human Species whose DNA we all still carry, just like with the Neanderthals, pretty much why the "missing link" is so hard to find ?     nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 22:20:19 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30416,from=rss#post30416https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30416,from=rss#post30416how is that even possible? how can a mutation which reduces the number of chromosomes in a creature from 40 down to 22 not manifest itself until the animal steps ashore on an atlantic island?nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 20:22:03 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30410,from=rss#post30410https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30410,from=rss#post30410quote:mais oui wrote: If evolution "takes place over millions of years" how come the European mouse (which could not have been introduced to the Canary Islands prior to their discovery) have now evolved into a distinct species (actually several distinct species) unable to breed with their ancestors the European mouse? It is postulated that the European house mouse arrived in Madeira on the sailing ships of European explorers (they certainly didnt swim out and their arriving on flotsam seems very unlikely) and since their arrival have evolved into 6 species with chromosome counts of between 22 and 30 (European mice have 40)several of these species of "Madeira mice" are unable to breed with either each other or European mice (one definition of speciation) Same as the Eve of Africa situation. The evolution that produced the genetic variations could have happened millions of years earlier, and only manifest to a different species once isolated.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 19:47:00 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30399,from=rss#post30399https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30399,from=rss#post30399The Neanderthals are not totally extinct. I know of one Neanderthal who is actually practicing law in Sacramento. lol nondisclosed_email@example.com (GoHawk)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 18:40:44 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30397,from=rss#post30397https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p30397,from=rss#post30397If evolution "takes place over millions of years" how come the European mouse (which could not have been introduced to the Canary Islands prior to their discovery) have now evolved into a distinct species (actually several distinct species) unable to breed with their ancestors the European mouse? It is postulated that the European house mouse arrived in Madeira on the sailing ships of European explorers (they certainly didnt swim out and their arriving on flotsam seems very unlikely) and since their arrival have evolved into 6 species with chromosome counts of between 22 and 30 (European mice have 40)several of these species of "Madeira mice" are unable to breed with either each other or European mice (one definition of speciation)nondisclosed_email@example.com (mais oui)Thu, 02 Nov 2017 18:34:59 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29811,from=rss#post29811https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29811,from=rss#post29811quote:Rigby5 wrote: I agree. It depends a lot on if you count the mutation part or not into the evolution, since that is the slow part. And I agree the natural selection part can happen in just a few generations possibly. The smaller the gene pool, the faster natural selection can manifest. A great point that explains the mystery species of humanoids, that came about in relative isolation. Then they disappeared from the fossil record rapidly, when contact with, and by interbreeding when they came came into contact with those more biologically successful subgroups that had enough population to be spreading by exploration and emigration. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Wed, 25 Oct 2017 19:07:03 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29807,from=rss#post29807https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29807,from=rss#post29807I agree. It depends a lot on if you count the mutation part or not into the evolution, since that is the slow part. And I agree the natural selection part can happen in just a few generations possibly. The smaller the gene pool, the faster natural selection can manifest.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Wed, 25 Oct 2017 18:39:33 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29640,from=rss#post29640https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29640,from=rss#post29640Yobbo, I'll agree that mutation driven genetic draft takes a very long time, but do you agree that classic Darwinian (rapid ) evolution happens when there is there is some sort of environmental change ? Then, does world travel being easy, and the various social changes like ending the Caste system in India and making mixed race marry legal, in the West count as being fairly major environmental changes ?   nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Tue, 24 Oct 2017 02:04:32 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29637,from=rss#post29637https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29637,from=rss#post29637Genetic change can be very variable. It usually takes millions of years but it can be rather swifter than that.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Yobbo)Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:15:34 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29604,from=rss#post29604https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29604,from=rss#post29604"Remember that evolution actually takes millions of years." and only by mutation ? Rigby, in my high school biology 1 class I asked a question suggesting that. My good teacher was thrilled that I given him a teaching opportunity that he loved, and throw out the lesson plan to to teach our whole class, instead, to explain that it not about slowly mutating like the prostitution in the Monkey Trails suggested (a great spell error that I like) ... rather the mutations are always there in the gene pool, anyway, and only manifest and only effect the genetic drift, manifest, IF AND WHEN ONE MUTATION becomes truly advantageous because of changes in the environment. So in reality big changes both occur much more rapidly than the common thinking account for, and that the "missing links" are not in fossil record for a couple of good logical reasons. Clearly the hybrid of the old and new species, in the classic Darwinian model, are few in number so rare in fossil record. They do not alway appear until there until new adaptation, the new genotype, is biologically successful and so dominates the fossil record. That is long time sure, but in population bottleneck it is those few individuals with the new genotype, full blown, that succeed biologically. THEN relative to the new science on the fate of the Neanderthals and how they are more like a different human race than a difference species as was erroneously presumed ...(by petty racist Victorian people, anyway ???) ... how hard do think it would be to find in the fossil evidence of there being, suddenly, in evolutionary terms, in the past half Century in real time, a huge increase in mixed race people ? I having been think of started about about if mixed race children ... err, sorry mixed race adults... are ... as in my experience more beautiful, so more desirable, so likely to be an evolutionary trend ? See: Mixed race people 'taller and smarter', Edinburgh Uni study says ... metro.co.uk › UK › Science But how hard would the "missing links" be to find, until humanity looks like the younger child here, which I have read might the result of genetic drift if the races mixed completely:        nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:58:05 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29599,from=rss#post29599https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29599,from=rss#post29599"Some are "mysterious" because many of us probably have never heard of them and science doesn't know much about them either." ... and how many of them might not have actually gone "extinct" but rather made contact with other human SUB-species and so merged, evolved, into the more successful groups that we know more about because their biological success makes them more plentiful in the fossil record ? Rose, a few years ago we discussed the new notion, that Neanderthals merged with homo-sapiens, when it was a radical new theory. So not to be critical, rather to make a point about science that has political ramifications on how to best to deal with the science deniers of various stripes. It is nature of science to apply Occam's razor - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one. So given the new evidence of how those "different species" were actually more like different races of same species ( not that race is very valid scientific term, I know) ... needs to be applied, unless we just repeat, discuss, the same arguments over and over again, so just play into the science deniers evil gamesmanship. I am sorry if I seem critical. That is just the nature of the Internet, I'm thinking, but given what we have learned about the fate of the Neanderthals should it be applied as the best explanation for similar situations ? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Geezess)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:15:53 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29579,from=rss#post29579https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29579,from=rss#post29579Remember that evolution actually takes millions of years. The odds of viable mutations from radiation or gene splicing viruses is very tiny. Then there has to be some advantage that would select for it. And finally, there has to be an isolated gene pool small enough for inbreeding to make the new mutation to take off. That takes a great deal of time, even if the process very suddenly become visible.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Rigby5)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 15:02:44 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29576,from=rss#post29576https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29576,from=rss#post29576Yeah...it seems to make sense huh? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Noserose)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:48:25 +0000 Re: 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29573,from=rss#post29573https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29573,from=rss#post29573Fascinating how'd he process of evolution took place over thousands of years. Of course we do realize that science be damned, that the earth is only 6,000 years old and humans were created out of dust in the Gatdenof Eden. And we were created to have dominion over all other beings. nondisclosed_email@example.com (GoHawk)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:38:12 +0000 10 Mysterious Extinct Human Species:https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29564,from=rss#post29564https://bthepoliticalgrilltwo.runboard.com/p29564,from=rss#post2956410 Mysterious Extinct Human Species: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQWNpgdP6U {Some are "mysterious" because many of us probably have never heard of them and science doesn't know much about them either. Some have contributed to the human gene pool and therefore are relatives. Others lived separate lives and we have nothing in common with them. We did however all exist as evolution tried to decide who should live and who should die out. We won the lottery it seems.] nondisclosed_email@example.com (Noserose)Mon, 23 Oct 2017 12:13:20 +0000