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Philer Profile
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


No, of course not. Racism in some other country doesn't preclude or excuse it in this one.

But from a practical standpoint any racism in the UK leads to less police violence against black people or other minorities by the simple approach of taking guns away from the police and likely better training with less emphasis on using lethal violence in order to defend yourself.

Our police officers are trained to protect themselves with lethal violence even when that violence is not absolutely necessary.

Last edited by Philer, 6/29/2020, 5:48 am
6/29/2020, 5:45 am Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

I am not sure it is more democratic? It may just be more slick and polished at manipulating masses?
Look at the progression in history.
The Romans just pillaged.
The British used local agents and troops.
The US claims to be liberators.
But in reality they are all equal imperial colonialists stealing wealth.
We have just gotten better at how we make it appear.-Rigby



It all boils down to the kind of folks who manage to get into governments. Our system is an attempt to put better people into the government than what the British had and have but in reality it hasn't quite worked out that way. Also, having the option of quickly changing who is in the government hasn't greatly improved our government compared to that of the British either. We seem to retain some of the worst people over a long period of time while removing some of the better ones after a short period of time.

The people get to decide who is in our government but they often make some pretty foul choices about who that is going to be.



But that is in theory why a democratic republic is superior to a dictatorship, even if currently benevolent.
While a benevolent dictatorship may temporarily be superior to a democratic republic in many ways, it can not last. The descendants of Alexander the Great are not going to maintain those standards. So as slow and inefficient as a democratic republic is, I think it is always essential to kill and risk dying for it. In fact, I think we have strayed much to far and need to start over completely. What we did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, police shootings, Khashoggie, etc., is well beyond acceptable.
6/29/2020, 9:25 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

No they do not and that has always been one of my points.



And of course if we had remained a part of the British Empire much longer than we did there'd be a much better chance that we wouldn't be putting up with that kind of police violence here. We have even more of a heritage of living by the gun and depending on guns to solve problems than the British do.



A more slick solution may not always be a better solution.
The problem in the US is not that there is too much violence,but that by attempting to distrust and disarm the average population, we have created a monopoly of arms by the police and military, who are an order of magnitude more violent and evil than the average population.
The right way to end evil violence in the US is equality of violence. It is the fault of the wealthy elite, and they must now taste the violence they have deliberately created.
6/29/2020, 9:33 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Philer wrote:

No, of course not. Racism in some other country doesn't preclude or excuse it in this one.

But from a practical standpoint any racism in the UK leads to less police violence against black people or other minorities by the simple approach of taking guns away from the police and likely better training with less emphasis on using lethal violence in order to defend yourself.

Our police officers are trained to protect themselves with lethal violence even when that violence is not absolutely necessary.



But again that is mostly just for effect. Appearances.
The UK still has even more income inequality, colonialism, imperialism, fascism, etc. It was smarter for their ruling class to make police appear more benevolent, but I am not convinced the government really is more benevolent or will stay that way even if it is.
6/29/2020, 9:37 am Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

I am not sure it is more democratic? It may just be more slick and polished at manipulating masses?
Look at the progression in history.
The Romans just pillaged.
The British used local agents and troops.
The US claims to be liberators.
But in reality they are all equal imperial colonialists stealing wealth.
We have just gotten better at how we make it appear.-Rigby



It all boils down to the kind of folks who manage to get into governments. Our system is an attempt to put better people into the government than what the British had and have but in reality it hasn't quite worked out that way. Also, having the option of quickly changing who is in the government hasn't greatly improved our government compared to that of the British either. We seem to retain some of the worst people over a long period of time while removing some of the better ones after a short period of time.

The people get to decide who is in our government but they often make some pretty foul choices about who that is going to be.



But that is in theory why a democratic republic is superior to a dictatorship, even if currently benevolent.
While a benevolent dictatorship may temporarily be superior to a democratic republic in many ways, it can not last. The descendants of Alexander the Great are not going to maintain those standards. So as slow and inefficient as a democratic republic is, I think it is always essential to kill and risk dying for it. In fact, I think we have strayed much to far and need to start over completely. What we did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, police shootings, Khashoggie, etc., is well beyond acceptable.



Governments are always going to be controlling and dictatorial to some extent or they aren't going to qualify as governments in the first place. The basic problem is not so much what kind of government you have but how to get people into that government who will not be harmful to the public at large.

Our system attempts to do that but it hasn't done it all that well.
7/1/2020, 9:25 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

katie5445 wrote:

No they do not and that has always been one of my points.



And of course if we had remained a part of the British Empire much longer than we did there'd be a much better chance that we wouldn't be putting up with that kind of police violence here. We have even more of a heritage of living by the gun and depending on guns to solve problems than the British do.



A more slick solution may not always be a better solution.
The problem in the US is not that there is too much violence,but that by attempting to distrust and disarm the average population, we have created a monopoly of arms by the police and military, who are an order of magnitude more violent and evil than the average population.
The right way to end evil violence in the US is equality of violence. It is the fault of the wealthy elite, and they must now taste the violence they have deliberately created.



Wouldn't it be better just to spread out the wealth a little better after getting better people in the government? Violence just seems to generate even more violence.
7/1/2020, 9:28 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Philer Profile
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

No, of course not. Racism in some other country doesn't preclude or excuse it in this one.

But from a practical standpoint any racism in the UK leads to less police violence against black people or other minorities by the simple approach of taking guns away from the police and likely better training with less emphasis on using lethal violence in order to defend yourself.

Our police officers are trained to protect themselves with lethal violence even when that violence is not absolutely necessary.



But again that is mostly just for effect. Appearances.
The UK still has even more income inequality, colonialism, imperialism, fascism, etc. It was smarter for their ruling class to make police appear more benevolent, but I am not convinced the government really is more benevolent or will stay that way even if it is.



You just provided one key to how to make a government benevolent. Make it realize that it is in its own best interest. They don't even have to be inherently benevolent, just convinced that it is for their own good as well as the public at large.
7/1/2020, 9:32 pm Link to this post PM Philer Blog
 
Fiero425 Profile
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

No, of course not. Racism in some other country doesn't preclude or excuse it in this one.

But from a practical standpoint any racism in the UK leads to less police violence against black people or other minorities by the simple approach of taking guns away from the police and likely better training with less emphasis on using lethal violence in order to defend yourself.

Our police officers are trained to protect themselves with lethal violence even when that violence is not absolutely necessary.



But again that is mostly just for effect. Appearances.
The UK still has even more income inequality, colonialism, imperialism, fascism, etc. It was smarter for their ruling class to make police appear more benevolent, but I am not convinced the government really is more benevolent or will stay that way even if it is.



You just provided one key to how to make a government benevolent. Make it realize that it is in its own best interest. They don't even have to be inherently benevolent, just convinced that it is for their own good as well as the public at large.



That's the way it's supposed to work, but for the last couple decades it's turned into an "us against them" mentality that's gotten worse as time goes on! Not to point fingers, but no one can deny Republicans have pretty much erased the word compromise in their dictionaries! If the word is even implied, it appears the politician will be "primaried" and have someone installed more intransigent because that's where society has gone! Trump has been utilizing these beliefs to the fullest and taken advantage of how stupid it makes us all look! ;-(

---
"Yes, I feel it; the power fills me! I feel the universe within me! ...You Are No Longer My Equal! I AM More Than Man, More Than LIFE; I AM A GOD!" Skeletor to He-Man in Masters Of The Universe
7/1/2020, 10:55 pm Link to this post PM Fiero425 Blog
 
Rigby5 Profile
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Reply | Quote
Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

Rigby5 wrote:

quote:

Philer wrote:

quote:

I am not sure it is more democratic? It may just be more slick and polished at manipulating masses?
Look at the progression in history.
The Romans just pillaged.
The British used local agents and troops.
The US claims to be liberators.
But in reality they are all equal imperial colonialists stealing wealth.
We have just gotten better at how we make it appear.-Rigby



It all boils down to the kind of folks who manage to get into governments. Our system is an attempt to put better people into the government than what the British had and have but in reality it hasn't quite worked out that way. Also, having the option of quickly changing who is in the government hasn't greatly improved our government compared to that of the British either. We seem to retain some of the worst people over a long period of time while removing some of the better ones after a short period of time.

The people get to decide who is in our government but they often make some pretty foul choices about who that is going to be.



But that is in theory why a democratic republic is superior to a dictatorship, even if currently benevolent.
While a benevolent dictatorship may temporarily be superior to a democratic republic in many ways, it can not last. The descendants of Alexander the Great are not going to maintain those standards. So as slow and inefficient as a democratic republic is, I think it is always essential to kill and risk dying for it. In fact, I think we have strayed much to far and need to start over completely. What we did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, police shootings, Khashoggie, etc., is well beyond acceptable.



Governments are always going to be controlling and dictatorial to some extent or they aren't going to qualify as governments in the first place. The basic problem is not so much what kind of government you have but how to get people into that government who will not be harmful to the public at large.

Our system attempts to do that but it hasn't done it all that well.



The argument is about establishing good government through laws and restrictions on government, not by getting good people into the positions of power.
You can never ensure only good people get into positions of power. That can never work. Instead you need a constitution that prevent government abuses, and an armed population willing to enforce those restrictions on government.

Government is never supposed to be controlling and dictatorial at all in my opinion. When they are defending the rights of someone else, they are not being controlling or dictatorial.
7/3/2020, 8:06 pm Link to this post PM Rigby5
 
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Re: Police Brutality Incites Riots


"Armed population" that is a day late and a dollar short at this point.
7/4/2020, 2:58 am Link to this post PM katie5445 Blog
 


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